The SFFaudio Podcast #812 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Soul Of Man Under Socialism by Oscar Wilde

The SFFaudio Podcast #812 – The Soul Of Man Under Socialism by Oscar Wilde – read for LibriVox by Martin Geeson. This is a complete and unabridged reading of the essay (2 hours) followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Evan Lampe, Will Emmons, and Terence Blake.

Talked about on today’s show:
the individual, therefore maimed, Martin Geeson, productions up on audible.com, some public property I can privatize, hundreds of contributions to LibriVox, almost all of it is poetry, about art, how to flourish with your soul, why Jesse likes Oscar Wilde so much, amused, a student for an hour, grammar, a deck of cards, images of various objects, leaves and bowls and roses, write a story in seven minutes using six sentences, a really good story, a king, a comb, and a snake, a lot of merit, “IT WOULDN’T WORK BECAUSE…”, a blind king who needed a wife, some tasty food, a mystery, there’s beauty there, Circe, Medusa, the missing card, works in many ways, no intended audience, central to the essay, problems as an ideology, that’s what he’s like, Oscar Wilde is also a fairy tale writers, an essay by Lovecraft’s wife, Commercialism: The Curse Of Art by Sonia Greene, she has the write idea, a case for socialism, the duty of society to liberate the audience, the audience for art, what the audience for a theater’s responsibility is, if the works of Shakespeare were presented as if new, Macbeth, counterarguments, long and rambling and strange, appreciated it, lasting impact, a good intervention, historically useful, by Wilde’s own metric, whether a work of art is useful or not, stories are incredibly central to human beings, society has a huge duty to the artist, he bends the stick too far, messaging the Che Guevara wikipedia page, Bill Maher, annoys in the right way, man can subsist under moral incentives alone, the new man, typical revolutionary, work 36 hours a day, student protests, what they’re protesting about, grieving, girl claims to be stabbed in the eye, shirt that says “Jew” on it, Che Guevara wasn’t, keffiyeh, huffington post, full of slurs, start drilling down, good or not, to tell a story that supports his point of view, we’re not socialists in America, a tenant that was talking to his landlord, the messaging has gotten through, we don’t live under socialism, everything is upside down, an interesting guy to read, in the context of a rich country, imperialist value chains that make British wealth possible, make a transition to socialism, socialist state builders in the 20th century, an immediate end to poverty, if we end poverty, through new machines, the William Morris book, News From Nowhere, a much more compelling story, whether essays can be artforms, designed to convince, an attempt, a try, not be prosecuted for your art, British vs. the French, a control of language on the cellular level, News From Nowhere is not plausible at all, how we got there, a pretty nice way, women do fabric art, men make wallpaper, an essay, his only political work, story is how people adopt, asked to teach essays, only the most insufferable people, the slandering of Che Guevara, A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift, undermines bad argument, functions like a story, within it are stories, best fricasseed or make a nice ragout, a series of plateaus, organized with a theme, crime and punishment, motivated by pleasure vs. pain, clusters of ideas, very Žižek in that sense, new paradigm, you can’t argue, counter-intuitive leaps, Terence spoke beautifully, agree entirely, very aspirational, quite beautiful, influenced nerdy graduate student Evan, do history, do podcasts, write it my own way, very juvenile about that attitude, the media, not just accepting the media’s interpretation about what art is, solipsistic, films and series, dumbing down, making everything consensual, why does popular art have to be bad, a democracy of individuals, ignorant schoolmaster argument, he’s in a knot, if this was the only thing we knew about Oscar Wilde, compare it to what happened to him, success and punishment, being publicly gay, physical punishment, a powerful lord, sent into prison, H.G. Wells, doesn’t get a sir, tried the wrong lady, royalty, it’s expected, previous conspiracy, a pretext for sending to prison, non-straight sex, Bill Clinton, he didn’t get punished for his art, lightfootedness, the Popes, the power of kings, a king with artistic sentiment, Voltaire, the curse of the public and their interest through journalism, successful, pandering to an audience, A Picture Of Dorian G[r]ay, a gap between, the abolition of property, the means of production, independent wealthy, a theme that’s in here, kind of, wealth and private property, Lord Byron, they’re not separate, he jumps around, you have to share your toothbrush, doesn’t really define it, the long section on how wealth is a burden to the wealthy, [Andrew] Carnegie’s gospel of wealth, that’s the legal system, entirely about private property, a warehouse is an amazing awesome technology, keep the rain out, books, pencil crayons/coloured pencils, keep your paper dry, personal property but not private, an apartment complex, no idea of transition from here to there, we got there somehow, this great possibility of free expression and individualism, he’s read [Peter] Kropotkin, crafts, automation, nobody should sweep, throw a fishnet into the water all day, quotas of fish, a serious problem with this essay, Will has intellectually warped himself through Marxism, the media does this says this, for what reason, what class do they represent?, the public’s ideas bad?, during the French Revolution, tear down the Bastille, all answered, this is not acceptable, a previous story which controls them, if that story is bad, suspicious of human nature, people progress, people change, how fucked up it was, starving peasants fighting for feudalism, The Third Revolution by Murray Bookchin, bottom up democracy, monarchy, liberals, Jacobins, sections of Paris, met in monasteries and churches, 1792/3, suppressed during The Terror, bottom up faith, Maoist epistemology, communists don’t make history, the masses make history, Wilde finds the masses to be repugnant, their condition, the rebel is good in some way, the thief, those who don’t believe the ideology, resentment is something that makes you ugly, living in squalor and full of hate, accept the squalor, more sympathy for the thief, you should be rebelling, it is right to rebel, it is right to rebel against reactionaries, Chinese factory worker be careful, the western interpretation, who one the Cultural Revolution in the end, too soon to tell, the Lost Decade, vaccination rates, two distinct periods, different factions, boring history, the developmental stuff, chaos, more chaotic than, Wilde’s views about what one’s duty to society is, volunteering to do more work, the barefoot doctors, is that so bad?, extremely useful, artists should be allowed to flourish, what the purpose of artists is, that’s why he’s wrong, all art has a class basis, to paraphrase Mao, the innermost kingdom of the bourgeoisie, who is the audience, the artist is the audience, onanistic, oppression, why this is not a great piece, art or light under socialism, giving you the feel, exactly contemporary, Christology, fun, religious group of people, what makes us so religious, is Wilde speaking to an audience that is Christian, he loves Christianity’s beauty, Catholicism for the aesthetics, Lutheran, the liturgy, aesthetically, a cultural christian, a slap in the face with a fish, Jesus, currently accepted ideology, before the socialist experiments, non-authoritarian, before Freudian type, pain and pleasure, very Nietzschean, robot slaves,

“For it is through joy that the Individualism of the future will develop itself. Christ made no attempt to reconstruct society, and consequently the Individualism that he preached to man could be realised only through pain or in solitude. The ideals that we owe to Christ are the ideals of the man who abandons society entirely, or of the man who resists society absolutely. But man is naturally social. Even the Thebaid became peopled at last. And though the cenobite realises his personality, it is often an impoverished personality that he so realises. Upon the other hand, the terrible truth that pain is a mode through which man may realise himself exercises a wonderful fascination over the world. Shallow speakers and shallow thinkers in pulpits and on platforms often talk about the world’s worship of pleasure, and whine against it. But it is rarely in the world’s history that its ideal has been one of joy and beauty. The worship of pain has far more often dominated the world. Mediaevalism, with its saints and martyrs, its love of self-torture, its wild passion for wounding itself, its gashing with knives, and its whipping with rods – Mediaevalism is real Christianity, and the mediaeval Christ is the real Christ.”

on the road to get healed somewhere, conversations with wives of Bath, a reflection of what artists are doing, a symposium of art making, by one’s self, music, one guy with a saxophone on a mountain top, pretty strong, his heart is in the right place, he himself wants his efforts to count towards social reconstruction, the overman is Caesar with the soul of Christ, one of his passions, art, science, politics, manual labour, craft and crafty, fishing, a self-help manual done right, come together in groups, very individualistic, kinda Ayn Randian, against business, against private property, against class difference, everyone a poet, as capable as him, been lucky, everyone can become creativity, more artists, better art, Roger Ebert, frustrated reviewers, easier to be a critic, snobby, Zack Snyder probably says that, why does he bloody show his movies, show to [Denis] Villeneuve and no-one else, a guy recording in his bedroom, stack of DVDs, free passes, free stuff, free audiobooks (that used to be expensive), becoming twisted and wrong, journalism feeding into bad behavior, cultivating an audience in a theater, utube is very big, hate bait, how to breed chickens properly, in that openness, feeling free to not have a popular channel, more ability to share, sharing is something he’s not fully thought through enough, so focused on oppression, the soul of man is art, whatever a soul is, why socialism is important, free us from the oppression of the property relationship, actual physical repression, the relationship is the oppressive thing, the freedom to comment, the freedom to review, if you don’t have your own printing press and your own distribution you don’t have freedom, mimeograph machine, the internet today, hard to find, the system is gamed against it, how bad google is, there but unseeable, virtually free to do that distribution, drowned out, ai art, an imperfect essay, handwaves a lot of this, the first line, we’re individualists in socialism, not making a program to get there, we’ll be freer individuals under socialism, we need other people to get us there, libertarian socialism, charity is the problem, amusing the poor, the accelerationist argument, the homelessness problem, people trying to solve, you shouldn’t do charity, the majority of people spoil their lives, he comes for the charity people pretty hard, this essay has such a humour to it, slave owners being kind to their slaves, let this outrage happen so the revolution will occur, in his back pocket, a program here, not detailed, it’s not for the masses, bourgeoisie cease charity, charity as a virtue, he’s for sympathy, for human feeling, otherwise socialism is going to be set back, it is immoral, the institution of private property, a personal program, under socialism this problem will no longer exist, places to organize, do what you can, Jesse might actually be right, Jesse is always wrong, a half sentence, the people who do the most harm, the charity degrades and demoralized, “Charity creates a multitude of sins.”, a hard argument, on French TV, presidential elections 30 years ago, equal time on TV, the marginal groups are marginalized even further, a Trotskyist, we are plundered, stealing everything from us, a star dancer at the Crazy Horse, stage name, as close to nudity as you can get, discovered by the head of the Crazy Horse, made her the star that she is today, the Marxist, I’m against charity, running for president to bring about the revolution, something sordid about this poor person elevated to stardom, patriarchal manipulation, charity vs. sympathy, property is theft, stealing $2 in the morning, Spider-Man should bite everyone to give everyone radioactive powers, with great property comes great responsibility, the logic of superheros, superheores are trying to stop the revoltionaries, Doc Oc, always some guy who wants to change things, Superman never zaps the president with his eye, judges shall not be impugned, questions in congress, happened for TikTok right now, you cant be super without lots of subs, sub-supers, The X-Men, homo superior, sympathy for Magneto, The League Of Evil Mutants, the oppressed group, the oppressed group, the oppressed individual, no one will have to seek approval, what’ll make somebody an elite under socialism, harvest more wheat?, an asian Soviet with a pipe [Semyon Nomokonov] who notched the number of nazis he killed on his pipe, 9 children and 49 grandchildren, not allowed to have open factions struggles, a war hero, a different sort of examples, Robert Sully Sullivan, played by Tom Hanks, whuffie, the congressional medal of honor gives credit to living people, Ulysses S. Grant, all the previous guys were all WWII veterans, you can’t give that status, Bush I, you’ve fucked up, can you have an elite, people’s who’s paintings you like, sweeps really good, tending to defer, a different kind of culture, this guy’s teepees are the best teepees, this collective, multiple elites, the stupid utube model, unbeleivable popularity, lowest common denomenator, flaming gold Ferrari, attract most attention for revenue, focusing on repairing fans (the things that you make you cool), Jordan U, why does he have 17th phones in his house, paintings on the wall of the warehouse, people who show off their rare book collections, Will’s greatest sin, scanners live in vain, scanner printer combo, the printer industry is superevil, Brother, Martin Geeson doing what Oscar Wilde is saying, unfortunate that Jonathan Weichsel doesn’t like Martin Geeson’s voice, the way to be popular, distracted by the whole socialism thing, a lot of people don’t get it guys, usually advertized without, its right in the first sentence, judging a book by its cover, talking about oppression, censorship on a basic level, people who can’t use words that they want to use, humanreadable, at symbols and upside down 3s, how much more could he say before he is thrown in prison, if the mood was wrong in the country, they chopped off the head of their monarch, restored the monarchy, Oliver Cromwell, if it weren’t for the Irish, Lord Protector, all cavaliers, now, a true leveller, entry points for people to grok things, start with what materials you have, making things easy for people is difficult, Martin Geeson is choosing interesting books, great voice, soul of an artist, valances with Sirius by Olaf Stapledon, the conditions of the people in England, under some social programs?, bankrupting the empire!, sold everything to win that war, the dog with no hands, the soul of dogs under socialism?, similar philosophy, an individualist quality, thinking together, working together, a particular novelist, Meredith, who that guy, Charles Kingsley, an immoral novelist, George Meredith, forgotten, didn’t have any science fiction books, just read Scalzi, The Three Body Problem [by Liu Cixin], The Dark Forest, Damien G. Walter, boycotting the book, the shows, why you have to do homework for this podcast, this podcast has homework, his sinophobia is facile and dangerous, too positive a view of the Cultural Revolution?, bad for science, the traitor to humanity girl, she meets up years later with the three women who lead the criticism and physical action of killing her father, privileged, before they joined the Red Army, able to better themselves a little during the Cultural Revolution, more complex than his propaganda, so empty, goes on and on, 2 hour things by him, you have to go to your death knowing that, did and didn’t, John Vervaeke, we need a new mythos, trying to determine what is in canon, you can’t do that unless you’ve read a lot, more of a media guy, an article, a list of all the women authors of science fiction not usually talked about, working through the canon, Mildred Klingerman, Margaret St. Clair, Judith Merrill, a great tastemaker, seems all right, writes really interesting stuff, leaning on make sure you get your diversity quotient in there, Madagascar science fiction, the same perspective, you can live in Bali, more about American literature, women writers and black writers, percentage, James Baldwin, first queer writer, Herman Melville, obviously super gay, if the stick is wonky, a qualitative judgement, compensating, black writers and asian writers and women writers, because he’s funny, being obtuse on purpose, Evan’s colleagues, eurocentric, teaching cohort, early modern history, too lazy to learn this stuff, we can tell the history of the world through European eyes, teaching world history, not just white European men, not about seeking out a quotient, not being ignorant about the world, people look for excuses not to read, because its propaganda, we all have to winnow, a bunches novel series ever written, Discworld, stuff without depth, not everything is showworthy, Tales Of The Gold Monkey, Indiana Jones pre-wwwii nazis, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century in the South Pacific, an ex-flying tiger, set in 1939, it’s impossible, no active duty until 1942, a hot lady in a hot tub talking to a nazi dressed up as a priest who wants to have sex with a native named Tiki, skin colour, sounds cool, what they called lived experience, their mom and dad were nice to each other, hung up on the wrong things, they’re all books, nobody talks about those, people need excuses not to read, Fearless Benjamin Lay, can we get more diverse than a Quaker abolition vegetarian dwarf who made his own clothes and lived in a cave, bend the stick to far against the liberals, what’s the baby, official commitments to anti-racism, why do you have a police state, the Deep State replaced Richard M. Nixon, the origin of policing after reconstruction, slave catching patrols, police hitting teachers, the philosophy professor being dragged off, sad but hilarious, I can’t breathe, she’s doing a callback, making an analogy to another situation, political correctness way of protesting, arrested and died, knee on the neck, oh you’re all right, fluids to make him calm down sir, heart massage, CPR, if somebody looks dead, we notice he looked unconscious, Evan is missing out all these amazing, give you you shittiest take, twitter is not good for Evan, talking about Reconstruction, the freedman wanted to be slaves again, quite good at governing themselves, Wilde in conversation with Mao, the greatest socialist intellectual of all time, something Damien G. Walter needs to read, Ursual K. Le Guin has a dangerous philsophy, The Dispossessed, not a lot of amazing art happening on that moon, a position of scarcity, post-scarcity, maybe Cuba has great art, musicians, health care, scarcity, internal production is not as efficient, a very small country, is Le Guin doing the same thing to criticize our man Oscar Wilde?, could be in dialogue, libertarian socialist, more liberal than anything else, attitudes towards copyright, for overthrowing the government, people don’t pay attention to what she says, near the end of her life, given an award, speaking about capitalism, a poem quoted in full on BoingBoing, Cory Doctorow had to take it down, The Master by Ursula K. Le Guin, the passing of knowledge and the mastery of tech, how to learn the slipstick, copyright in China, the argument that is always thrown against China is they steal patents/copyrights/trademarks, a serious problem, there’s a long story about the Tetris game, an ideological opposition to censorship, copyright is a form of that, Mr. Shitlib King, breaking copyright, not in favour of censorship ever, socialist/communist society, what’s the difference?, a communist society vs. a socialist state, a good place to be, philosophy of mugs, a really nice mug, spouse, a cute mug, bad shape for a mug, mugs should be functional, spoons, mug with hole in the bottom, a mug, an indigenous mug, made in an anti-imperialist country, handwashing, a mug is a device for delivering liquids to your mug, a cute mug, hence the drips, take a photo of it then get rid of it, emotional sentimental value, not broken yet, Mao would call that liberalism, use it often and carelessly, you should not be upset when it breaks, point in the direction, deception is allowed, the right shape, efficient, homeless guy who masturbated in the public square, Diogenes, u need a lamp, some onions, Louis CK, stoics, in a mugshell, one mug, thank you for everything, thanks for all the mugs, What Mad Universe by Fredric Brown, a novel, Lawrence Block had a book come out, a writer that Block appreciated, a way of getting into that relationship, a halfway important science fiction writer, a writer’s writer, Mack Reynolds, not his great novels, the fuckin system, after 1963 fuck everybody, copyright for 7 years, so it can be useful to multiple people, works in translation, a holdover from the imperial period, he’s cute, he’s funny he’s smart, a science fiction novel about science fiction, another case for the Baroque Cycle, interesting, long, as a long as a story needs to be, sometimes things need to be longer, this essay didn’t need to be 2 hours, why do we have long books, the cost of a credit, subverted, not why Stephen King writes long books, what censorship, he would never be censored, self-censorship, he’s not following the market, he’s 7 and a half feet tall, he’s not Spud Webb, most people who write long books, unnecessary sex scene, fetch quests, Evan went wild, a popular podcast, Geek’s Guide To The Galaxy, side quests, find the G.E.C.K., representing the game, defending it, The Stand, awkwardly updated the setting, the tone, this is here to sell more paper, he’s living life under socialism, he’s rich, people who are wanting to be Stephen King, writing novels, 7 sentences in 7 minutes, they’re wrong, you have to fill a certain number of pages, you have to have a cover, self-identify as a writer, not a real person, a class of people who aspire, doing a disservice by trying to make shorter or longer, when TV shows are about an hour are not confined by a hard number, when not helpful to the story it shouldn’t be followed, longer is better, big fat fantasy novel, wanted to live in that would, what Paul would say, room to breathe, he goes by instinct, develop a philosophy, make an argument, give me an example Will/Paul, favourite really long book Cyteen by C.J. Cherryh, doorstop books, a person’s whole life, a big Russian novel, wheels within wheels, Dune by Frank Herbert, a lot of plot, long for the period, every sequel by other hands, an important density in there, it isn’t room to breathe, it’s long because it has a lot in it, the Baroque Cycle, characters, packed with ideas, denser, despite being that long, the origins of capitalism, money, the scientific revolution, abolitionism, Anathem, Player Of Games, people who love Culture, don’t need Dune Messiah, bring Duncan Idaho back, that’s stuff happening, the guy has no name, the servant has no name, the lady who it is about has no name, ideas can’t exist in characterization, apple show A Man In Full by Tom Wolfe, an idea in it, military SF is more about gun polishing, ideas are central, fully explored in a short amount of space, the writing quality is less important than the idea explanation, the density, how many books I could read in the time I am reading this book, like Evan with women, build up the body count, women are the opposite of ideas, the people who like Dune too much, being immersed in the world, gets your juices excited, he isn’t heavy on ideas, The Colorado Kid, Mike suggested we do The Flitcraft Parable, a scene in The Maltese Falcon, chapter 7, like a fist when you open your hand, when processing it to consider it, Eric S. Rabkin, a really solid book, 196 pages, didn’t need to by 700 pages, Sam Spade is having sex with Archer’s wife, he’s one of the suspects, mysteries are an interesting parallel to science fiction, exploring our reality, in his rambling short book about the Flitcraft Parable, the length is appropriate to the idea, From A Buick 8, complain about his endings, life just sort of goes on, sets up characters as dominoes, eucatastrophes, shinings, the house forgot about its own boiler, not servicing fans?, intimate relationship with his fans, hurried to finish the Dark Tower, an old woman writing him, shitlibbery caused by a desire to please his audience?, Joyce Carol Oates, not normal for people to be liberals in our society, fucking suffer, can’t have a house, can’t have a wife, people are suffering, his fans are not all boomers, an Xer, Marissa likes him, it doesn’t define him, a 70s vibe, he feels the need to be relevant, comes off awkwardly, the Bachman book that was in a drawer, counter-culture vibes, hippie commune vs. the nazis, so not relevant, this old black lady, just show up, talk to the fascists, eucatastrophe happens, they’re mean and short, they have an idea and the character dies, The Running Man, Roadwork, Rage, The Long Walk, weary, just life, this oppressive thing the state is doing to them, questioning the purpose of life and why we’re here, droppin’ dead, a metaphor for life, an oppresive state, about school, the military and conscription, Carrie is nice and short, The Dead Zone, Firestarter on the backburner, in the zeitgeist, boomerness, what does Joyce Carol Oates represent in the zeitgeist, irrelevant Princeton professor, middle age guy, Killdozer, Marvin Heemeyer, Stephen King when still drinking, Thinner, gypsy curse seems silly, experimental in the 90s, the idea idea idea thing, one series, very meta, not like Hunger Games, a fast reader vs. a slow reader, you have to be in the right headspace, The Alleyman by Philip Jose Farmer, COVID doesn’t help, two boosters once, don’t accept injections unless literally dying, flu vaccine, now is the time to do Jesse’s epistemology, he’s a skeptic, have a police incident happen to you, it’s about that for everything, Sextus Empiricus, sense impressions, what’s a heap, suspend judgement, a lot of baby words, retweet a lot of far right things, show me one, nothing, heterodox, Jackson Hinkle, 1776 revolution, liberating Canada, absurdity, already captured, no need to invade, shampoo, how many of the words on the ingredients list can you pronounce, syllables, sodium lauryl sulphate, if your shampoo has more than syllables your children will have autism, putting all this shit in u, why do people do this?, a little discourteous, we know how long people have been smoking, spike it, most people who smoke don’t get lung cancer, that’s the weird part, a Philip K. Dick story, body parts you need to replace, if you can’t pronounce it why are you getting it in your body, there’s a lot of things I can’t pronounce, cancer too, NaCl (sodium chloride), end up in a whole bunch of cults you don’t know you’re in, dem vs. republican a cult, tribal thing, partisanship, demented tribal leader vs. demented cult leader, more cult like, Biden is in control, obviously he is not in control, reading the parts he’s not supposed to read, just defer to better him than Trump, against team bad, you should be against things that are bad, some sort of use for some shampoo, how an average consumer can know, a silly test, properly fund an independent agency that can check, it’s been corrupted, we’re left with the label, the Food and Drug administration is corrupt, Plato, you have feet, you don’t have the document in front of you, the documents exist, evidence all around you, assume corruption is the default, moms abuse, that doesn’t get us anywhere, there’s a mom over there, she’s doing, the shampoo supply is not safe, the stuff injected into your body, you have to buy food, flu shots, they don’t work, they’re full of chemicals, mercury, a chemical, salt is fine, know what the words mean, reading labels, margarine is not human food, lubricate objects, define mayonnaise, chlorine, basic chemistry, who put this shit together, something for sale, preservatives, calcium propionate, water that comes out of the faucet, no industry, there’s nothing, coast mountains, metal pipes (not lead), perfectly good to drink, bottled water full of plastic, advertised to, there water is terrible, the water in Taiwan, boiled water and bottled water, water dispenser, Coca Cola, drink the tap water, water are the ingredients, do what their parents do, who you probably assume are corrupt, maybe his graduate research, follow all his footnotes, bit the bullet, you could question everything, reasonable suspicion aroused, start questioning, bad puppy, cook that puppy, shot that puppy in an ethical manner, we all have to give up our inquiry, big flashing warning signs, recreate all these experiments home, this tub margarine has been sitting in my fridge since 1981, it doesn’t rot, food rots, alcohol is a poison, designed to kill things, sugar doesn’t rot, this is an industrial lubricant sold to us as a replacement for butter, seed oils and vegetable oils, a food product, you can eat industrial lubricant, your mom gave you butter and it seemed good to you, butter is really good for you, you need fat to live, asparagus fats, is this important, she makes a good point here, anything that is not super old, animals, see if they’ll eat it, when set of grandparents, switched to butter, poison that’s for sale, not human food, the coal butter, that’s what shit is, carnauba wax, employed in food grade polish, making food out of it, see you on twitter.

It Wouldn't Work Because by Jesse

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #802 – READALONG: The Seventh by Richard Stark

Jesse, Will Emmons, Terence Blake, and Trent Reynolds talk about The Seventh by Richard Stark

Talked about on today’s show:
sometimes published as The Split, the movie kinda sucks, it should be excellent, not one character actor in it, Jim Brown, Donald Sutherland, Gene Hackman, the girls are fine, they fuckaround with the plot a lot, convincingly convinced, impossible to make Parker a character on film, watched the movie then finished the book, Parker is off the page a lot in those books, entire acts where he’s offscreen, they can’t get inside his head, the old narrator problem, voice over narration, talk to the guy sick in bed, she goes away and gets some tea, do you want lemon or sugar or cream or milk, Parker doesn’t know anything about tea, ignorant of vast swaths of humanity’s interest, pop up menu like The Terminator, he doesn’t operate like a normal human, at the end of the book we see something out of character: he laughs, emotionless or pissed off, he’s not a human, he’s some aspects or parts of human, trying to run people off the road, to test them for his crew?, the character lacks definition, they want to make Parker into a film so bad, it never works, The Sour Lemon Score, Harvey Keitel in City Of Industry (1997), one scene where they’re at a stoplight and cops pull up next to them, this little mechanism, professional and amateur, more than ten years, The Man With The Getaway Face, Ask The Parrot is better, one of the scores, The Black Ice Score, black panthers, The Score, somebody loves every book, no rhyme or reason to it, Slayground, fairly typical of the books, a heist of some kind, trouble dividing the money, thieves fall out, how did you find this book, the beginning, slow, badly prepared, the blurbs, this is amazing in pace, you can’t put it down, not sleep til u finished it, nobody knows what’s happening, the action crystalizes, false tracks, so much description, he has to describe everything, hands, the realist principle, a less good book if you took out the descriptions, a four and a half hour book, unputdownable, the time aspect, Parker thinking, time had been playing tricks like that, an hour took a week or more to be done with, the personality (despite it’s almost absence) underneath the opposition between amateur and pro, different stupidities, the pro vs. the amateur, another type of stupidity, a key, a meta level explaining other detective thrillers, richer in the second half, subtle about his philosophy, makes you want to read the books, super-formulaic, Westlake is writing a formula, he’s being playful, I guess for my seventh book, 1966, feels a little bit earlier, fins on the cars, middle sixties, the secret hidden philosophy or anxieties behind all of Westlake’s fiction, obsessed with insurance, Abe Klinger, a temporary condition that had lasted about twelve years, television was to blame, an insidious monster in living rooms, taxes getting worse every year, barely possible, except for the rotten box, kiddie matinee on Saturday, always a double feature, a nice friendly neighborhood theater, the public library, long suffering voices, in every Westlake Parker book, we get inside other character’s minds, they become sympathetic, reconciling all these modes of being, insurance is worry, it’s a concern, “detective” thriller, this has a mystery in it, failed, he writes crime fiction, closer to suspense than mystery, the light face and the dark face detective, present himself as an agent of change, The Risk Profession, a murder mystery about insurance, successful, the Dortmunder series, high 20s, built up the crew, Kifka, Abe Klinger, had he not been shot, sympathize with him, an amazing choice, wrote this just for money, television or sensationalism came along and ruined everything, very brainful, uses thoughts to create characters, the killer’s problem is he’s an amateur, a non-functioning penis, vituperative girlfriend, bad with his hands, imagery that goes with the sword, it felt good in his hands, letters from prison, criminals get away with it, chance to get away with a crime, Westlake is cerebral, a non-cerebral character, the Reacher series, powered through it, he’s no longer a Terminator, an attempt at acting (was bad), the first season was very solid, had reviewed the book, he’s not Conan, Conan doesn’t have a pension, Conan is not patriotic, our anti-hero is not patriotic, a little bit of Parker’s backstory, a criminal when he was in the army, he doesn’t love his country, he doesn’t think about that at all, a red blooded American, spit on the flag, Westlake is not a super-patriot, surrounded by patriots, Westlake’s real passion, he like community theater, finances his fun with his skill, a furniture maker, put out of business, so now he’s a criminal, Grofield, puts his heisting money into his theatre, in The Score, Parker puts together the heist, show up and look like a manager, the detail work on the other characters, a depth of character, figuring out life philosophy, how to be in the world, what’s the point of crime fiction?, edifying, in this particular instance, the leader, the money was stolen out from under him, abandon this and run away?, an amateur stole from him, with his seventh, Westlake rewarding Parker, a professional pirate, doesn’t have a nation, makes war on all the world, and is vengeful on those who break the covenant, they’re all armed, a homosexual relationship, you got to go to a doctor!, goes vengeful on Parker, acting irrationally, they’re not his friends, they are colleagues, they are comrades, the best Parker on film is Quentin Tarantino’s Reservoir Dogs, you’re acting like a punk, various psychopathic characters, a very Parker/Stark scene, a war of all of us against the institutions that are betraying us, the cop is probably the smartest character in the book, they’re doppelgangers, family life has made him weak, all that’s crap, the hardness in the eyes, sit for an exam to become a Terminator, need more training, Parker is a stripped down version of a human, there’s no hubcaps, the engine runs great, there’s a crack in the windshield, Parker’s sexual stuff, no sexual need or interest, all he does for three days is fuck, he’s not normal, Sherlock Holmes, A Study In Scarlet, zero interest in astronomy, completely ignores it, he knows about Chinese Tongs and the KKK, that’s kind of Parker too, his definition of what is extraneous is a whole lot more, he has no interesting in that, you’re a fool if you believe it, people call Parker a shark, what he’s not doing, a white sandy bitch named Michelle, completely stripped down, in stripping it down, Moriarty is famous for The Dynamics Of An Asteroid, interested in puppeteering things, he even abandons his face, plastic surgery, his name doesn’t matter, “Call me Joe”, Mr. Brown, Mr. Blue, Mr. Pink, to pull off a big heist, better off with no partners, his human foibles (wanting to have sex with a lady), makes him a bad Terminator, offered to him like a sacrifice to a god, and then he laughs, neat little bow, none of this would have happened, what makes him not a robot, so iconic, so compelling, Mel Gibson is not Parker, Lee Marvin is not Parker, how do you do that tea scene?, only in novel form, what’s the point of this?, made the argument, getting into the philosophy of life, the same appeal, what does it mean to have this kind of person, go through the character list, the least fucked up guy is the cop, the least sketched, he makes a great breakthrough and is killed before he can say it, he figures out, Morry, on Will’s deep question, read these things if you want a point from them, what’s the point of having these people in the world, having unplugged people (from the system), born that way, became that way, the partially unplugged, the craft guy, outlet malls, sort of yet another image of Bartleby (the Scrivner), more active, we can’t be Bartleby because it is humiliating, why is it humiliating, Conan is always an active agent in a story he’s thrust into, literally fights a god, Westlake is torturing Parker and entertaining us, this is not just entertainment, about life philosophy, compared to Reacher, Conan is not a patriot, animalistic efficiency, we animals, tricked into patriotism and friendships, allies not friends, judging them on their reliability, a little out of character, determined to go get this guy, they guy doesn’t know who he is, makes him act stupidly, rewarding the reader, more than one dynamic, Butcher’s Moon, Grofield gets kidnapped, logically he shouldn’t be doing it, taking it as a personal insult, a rationalization, tie up a loose end, he doesn’t know what Parker looks like, he doesn’t know his name, middle sized North Eastern town, Parker is married, driving a Toyota Avalon, commonlaw married, as long as he doesn’t bring it home, Westlake in later life, knows who he is, still heisting, how to be in the world, a knife-edge sort of thing, Westlake is a humourist, literally executes a guy, superstitious, Parker picks up the gun and shoots him with it, please help me, making yourself submit, bureaucracies are not good at helping people, superstitious fool with a dick problem who is a murder, why he is mad at Parker, a lot of sex in this book for a book not about sex, Parker thinks he’s just being logical, he’s restoring order in his universe, not logical that an amateur could beat a professional, a personal affront that must be punished, once you’ve unplugged from the system and be a heister, a lucky coincidence, a little off-topic, bring it in, Jesse does a lot of tutoring, a “leadership” class, pretend that they’re teaching them leadership, it makes no sense, automatically a non-leader, how well you behave, write a land acknowledgment, what leaders do, this land was stolen improperly, insert band name here, that was really bad that we stole it from them, land claims and treaties, that’s submitting to a system, if you control your class with a whip, a classroom full of kids with whips, guns and knives, leadership is really weird, everybody has guns and they can all shoot you at any point, not a real thing guys, an assortment of associates, big cave man energy, where do chiefs come from?, people who don’t have a lot of concrete in their sidewalks, characters of ridicule, similarly strange adjacent jobs, medicine man, wise old woman, takes an active role to try to get the money back, wants to get revenge, a professional is a person who gets wins aka the money, wanting things that an amateur would want, when somebody hits you, hitting you with words, violence is a good solution, a tit for tat, escalating, punishing with impunity, stealing from a football game, an ivy league football game, a charity day, they spent all day, one of the most complicated things to do, passed over really quickly, they focus on the wrong things, the logical scaffolding, the most sensational thing, he doesn’t describe that, his book is a paired down thing, it is four tapes, it feels bigger than it is, time going strange, jump backwards in time, the complication, the complication, the conclusion, fascinated by the character, what he’s saying about people and how to be in the world, the guy drives an old car, he can upgrade to an Edsel, gets a pat on the head, when he goes to his boss, his boss never graduated high school, why would that matter, this is something I understand, the cap and gown shit, a place of punishment, i need to go to university, that’s where the fun is, not playing by the rules, working for Klaus Schwab, obey the laws that make sense, nobody listens, what are they gonna do about it?, insurance, financial insecurity, that money not being in your pocket at all times, an aspect of the larger thing, the book that came before it, years salting away money, gigantic nest egg, the end of the previous book, no faith in institutions, the government is corrupt, taking your good pills, everybody in Parkerland, this person is a really great person, you know what his problems are, very wholesome, revenge is unhealthy for you, resentment is a poison that you take to make another person die, you have to take care of yourself, never see him on a roulette table, he’s not 007, he’s the opposite of James Bond, that James Bond book Westlake wrote, hired to write a James Bond movie set in Hong Kong, actors, rights issues, filed the serial numbers off, Tomorrow Never Dies, Westlake is not Ian Fleming, an engineer not a spy, really long, the writing is never bad, they’re all experiments, a formula always works, he was trying to write a Jack Reacher book, a thick thriller you could sell at airports, Dancing Aztecs, cash-ins, decadent, if you just look at the handwork he does with characters, a little bit about Parker’s attitude towards people’s names, Mutt and Jeff, a clumsy haste, that’s comedy writing there, don’t move, Cops And Robbers, lower middle class cops become criminals, a foile a deux, The Outfit, doesn’t feel like a Parker novel at all, The Stepfather, two sequels, about a man’s mind, Block is more straight up, very cerebral, why do people like reading Stephen King books?, children and children’s psychology, grappling with stuff in fiction, largely about how to live in the United States, a college course out of his books, largely about political corruption, civic corruption, openly mocked, the wrong wing of communism, an imperial country, through the course of life, disidentified with Australia, disidentified with English, a rootless cosmopolitan, probably more Australia, Nice, an anti-Proustian experience, unrecognizable, the basic elements, Hyde Park, Sydney, the opera house, the harbour bridge, the sea and the sky, that particular sea and the sky, an American flag, red paint on the sidewalks, chain restaurants, too big, don’t like Justin, nice people everywhere, Turkey, Kentucky, being rooted, Frederick Heimbach, making digs, not committed, what trauma, personality defect or personality superpower, lose faith in institutions, what patriotism is, love the flag as the symbol of that thing, so many different kinds of Christian, soldiers and anti-soldiers, pacifists?, violence, violence at the dinner table, responses to violence and violation, Parker was on to something, refers to the woman, a receptacle, slightly more than that, a liability, annoying, fuck her while he’s sick, comedy, helping you, keepin you warm, that person seems more well adjusted than Parker, able to hold down a job, their backstory, sex him up, a dry run for Claire, healthy marriage, don’t bring the corpses into the garage, coffee will be ready in 10 minutes, says when he’s done, seen this relationship before, you have your hobbies she has hers, the sex while sick, she never caught, the other woman in the story, the madam who talks to much, always wants to have chats, Hazel?, Madge!, a retired hooker, a cathouse runner, showing up at Madge’s place, that’s not Parker, lovingly, friends or something?, she gets one of the sixths, the beat up spot, Book 1, Chapter 4, less than a hundred bills to his name, outside of Scranton, our president, strange conversation, fun, a Kifkaesque conversation, in her 60s now, when age retired her, too talkative, too nervous, rented mostly by the hour, stay and talk, Parker not being able, I’ll go there, I’ll fix the drinks, everyday was old home week, her gossiping, she never shut it with insiders, beautiful prop work, 4 cassettes, 4 hours 22 minutes, a weird life philosophy going on, we all gotta deal in the world, shut up, maybe, is this how to behave?, self-contained, not completely, people who can’t sit alone in a room with a book, where ethyl was sitting at the desk, mentally retarded, Bob Negly, the second Parker book, best Parker book?, The Score, the sandwich in between two classics, an old communist back in the day, he’s dumb now, a doctor who does facial reconstructions, he doesn’t think real good, the retarded girl, why did he do that, he’s really good with character work, he’s just so strange, it’s not representation, exactly, flawed characters keep people in their lives out of duty, duty, explaining why Parker goes after Grofield, when somebody does something wrong, make things even, rather than revenge, very subtle, nemesis, fate or The Cold Equations, everything is logical and that’s the way things are, correct the anomaly without emotion, a nemesis who takes a personal interest, the god, infringements of the cosmic order, that was wrong, wrong as in it was a mistake, acting improperly, violating the tao, a big part of it, something you don’t appreciate, a violation, rectification, correction, an nemetic, various way of being taciturn, a defect, useful, she doesn’t blab about what she learns, they don’t talk back, a scene where Madge blabs for an hour and a half, sits there and lets her talk, chatter away, Parker doesn’t watch TV, Lawrence Block’s characters read , hangs out on the beach, does job, he needs to know the psychology of people, he sums them up, studies and analyzes and sums up, “Parker didn’t”, often not diding things, that opening is so nice, it went with a dry cracking sound, Parker raised his foot, the door popped open like it was surprised, his plans were loused up now, Parker didn’t want drinks, no to Negly, a joke about vengeance, it wasn’t cash Negly wanted, the amateur first, find out how the situation now stood, “handy”, Parker uses people for his own good, as pieces on a chessboard, manipulating himself, drink cigarettes and eat beer, always in opposition, more of the same, he’s not on the property ladder, playing his own game, what makes you an amateur is you don’t get the money, convincing, why Jesse likes Parker so much, why Jesse likes Conan so much, Solomon Kane is insane, funny that you mention that, the Del Rey collection, wish there had been a lot more, doesn’t write a lot of novels, all about Satan, there’s only his mind thinking there is Satan, morally insane, he think he’s serving god, slays visions, whatever is happening you’re delusional, he never reconciled some of the contradictions, Staff of Solomon, buddy buddy with the witchdoctor, derives his power from Satan, the right hand of vengeance, more vengeance than nemesis, another big gap, better than Conan stories, we did pretty good, the Harlan Ellison tweet, the land of fear, throw out you fucking copy of Finnegan’s Wake, very Harlan Ellison, even when his novel doesn’t gel, heights and insights, not a character guy, he’s good at that, that’s really good, he’s really on to something, let’s rob a rock concert, let’s rob a casino, variations on a theme, the weirdness of how to be in the world, the books exist for the fallout, the heist is never the focus, when the stuff hits the fan, what he likes to explore with these, he was a cop in the airforce, white caps [“snow tops”], Dortmund, a German beer, puts everything he’s experiencing and puts it in his stories, The Green Eagle Score, an unproduced screenplay for that, owned by a major studio, lucky that they didn’t make it, Parker has a brother, no, Parker doesn’t have family, Ransom, Black Ice, Green Eagle, Sour Lemon, Rare Coin, the most violent, torture stuff, mostly offscreen, they didn’t pay for the rights when they made City Of Industry, attempts to try to capture Westlake, there’s problems with it, how many Westlake films were produced, one of the most adapted guys ever, Bram Stoker’s Dracula, Brothers Keepers, post show scheduling, a Ray Cummings, Cat-Woman by Ray Cummings, 13 pages, Selina’s Big Score, it is better not to picture Parker, watching the movie adaptations, the best Parker on screen was Robert Duvall, he’s nothing like Parker, The Outfit, the philosophy doesn’t translate, a really good read, Stark, all on purpose, a webcomic called Gravedigger, Point Blank, where to find it now, track everything, real comics, Lee Marvin on the cover, a lady lying on a floor topless, a dude wrapped up in ropes, a trapper’s shack in Yukon, the mad gods laughed at my helpless plight, a murdering ravening beast, shudder pulp, cringe pulp, weird menace, later 1930s early 1940s, a lot of torture, weird cults, Mike Vendetti started getting into it, finally found my genre, sloppily written stories, racism, sex and torture, with deep philosophical reflection on modes of maleness, men want to save women, meet cute, hooded cultists, you go into cave, branding with swastikas, to make them nude, working theory, designed to make men have romantic adventures on how to make girlfriends, not a great prose stylist, the other options on Ray Cummings, Space Liner X-37, renegade Venusian, manacled hands, Mark Nelson, mixing it up with something good, not a good reputation amongst us, Cirsova, bad Alex?, that Alex, one is better than the other?, morally?, you want to pair up?, something that we’ll know it will be good, next open slot, time to research, something thematically related, rising intonation, Terence is powerful like that, Call Me Joe, in the science fiction industry, a collection of planetary adventures, Dragon Queen Of Jupiter, all read by the same narrator, trying to play it cutesy, In The Orbit Of Saturn by R.F. Starzl, Stupendous Spectacles Of The Solar System In Space, Prize Ship [by Philip K. Dick], 1931, the dreaded solar scourge, spend to much time on Mars you go mad, “space madness”, David H. Keller, awful and long, detective tryyna figure out why this chinese religion is so popular, dresses up as a Chinese, underneath the altar, a drug front, he can do wrong, religion is the opium of the people, warping himself, all of the Taine stories, somebody has to do the job, for the collective, liking your tweets because I like your tweets, might even quote tweets, we can have a beef, whistle at tweets, The Gun by Philip K. Dick, a trigger warning, a content warning, Tommy Patrick Ryan, bad idea, unsuccessfully modeled my mind, land acknowledgment, don’t fall for it, don’t like hypocrisy, an Indian community, Indians who take advantage of their status to self-aggrandize, not better people, it’s okay if a woman bombs us, fighting a straw man, am I?, no!, taking advantage, how big a problem, Inuit and the Metis, just above a million one hundred thousands, as a percentage, cultural genocide, actual genocide, less Indian wars, we have to be careful, for what reason?, Paul getting in trouble or not getting in trouble (at the hands of western administrators), it was western liberals, Camestros Felapton?, liberals collaborating with or submitting to communists, just did it, hilarious, back to the Hugos, hott goss, if Paul had won Fan Writer, we shouldn’t have a convention in China because of the Uyghur genocide, if you stretch the definition, vs. actual genocide in Gaza, because they’re cowards, they don’t beleive the video of their eyes, they’d rather believe the government lies, tagging in that word is calling it a cultural holocaust, murder and culture destruction, deliberate and widespread attempt to steal kids and their language, Jesse concentration camp, particularly egregious, the previous convention was in Canada, nobody was all up in arms about dead children in Canada, anti-China hate, Nixon is a lot more reasonable, Nancy Pelosi trying to start WWIII with China, The Mad Planet by Murray Leinster, Demons Of Cthulhu, a concession to will, Starman Jones, a concession to Jesse, The Stone Dragon by R. Murray Gilchrist, sweaty looking guy with a nice mustache, Temple Bar, The Yellow Book, The Crimson Weaver, a great Edge, the Valley of the Willowbreaks, sleeping side by side, fresh gathered heather, wallless bridge, The Domain of the Crimson , a beldame, ossier, enter not the domain of the crimson weaver, behold I was beautiful once, discovered the foulness of her bosom, she is mad, that sounds good, Eldritch Archives, The Werewolf’s Daughter by H. Warner Munn, Farmer friends, you should, Time Is The Simplest Thing by Clifford D. Simak, the beginning premise blew Terence’s mind, Exiles To Glory by Jerry Pournelle, a right wing guy, he’s wrong, because welfare slums, a senior engineering student at UCLA, murderous “youth gang”, kills an inner city resident and has to run, you don’t kill juvies in this town, on the run and all of earth there was no place to hide, 144 pages, 5-6 hours, YA, a response to Heinlein, interested in right-wingers, tarred by people who claim to be left wingers, unacceptable and wrong and hypocritical, patriotic communism, very internationalist, the neighbourhood and the biome, Kentucky is an area in addition to a state, used to be a statehouse, the long view on nations, too soon to tell, Zhou Enlai on the French Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, Mao’s right hand man, educated by a rich Chinese man, studied in France, how do you feel about funding this young man, the just so story, being funded by a rich man, signed up, solved, What Mad Universe by Fredric Brown, how did we get Scott on there?, The Fearless Benjamin Lay by Marcus Rediker, vegetarian dwarf, vegetarianism is a mistake, maybe too soon to tell, Hitler and Benjamin Lay, probably both liked dogs but not to eat, Hitler had two eyes, you like architecture, hey you live in Europe, the stupidest argument, the guy pops out of a hole in a well, and yet you live in a society, as a response on twitter, so stupid, latent patriotic tendencies, an episode of American history, Evan is fiercely patriotic, it is a vice, Evan loves vices, he wants to earn enough money and be a prepper?, Wisconsin, he has failed to Terence properly, Mad Max novelization, might be a problem, motorcycle and biker gangs, one of the finest films, Mad Max II, an extravaganza of awesome, the dog dying, baby schmaybe, the grandma with the shotgun, Cundilini with his hand missing, likes Shakespeare with motorcycle gangs, 1981, rust on the details, Thunderdome is not as good, almost a comedy, fun things, more accessible to children, Tina Turner, the blue lagoon, great character, be the queen of capitalism, that weird airplane, native Australian project, air taxi/crop-duster, who isn’t in to planes?, cars are pretty good too, transformers, they can hide, they’re in disguise, secret identity, secretly millions of years old, I can transform, Dragon Queen Of Jupiter, fascinated by the world of Mad Max, Audiobooks For The Damned, funny names and numbers, all pirate, doing it out of love vs. commercial purposes, Commercialism: The Curse Of Art by Lovecraft’s wife, I must fund him, I must save him, I can save her, she’s like that with Lovecraft, none of us can be saved in the end, recorded in his car, AFTB #68, the account exists in a limbo state, the cancellers, really trolly, I like this person because they like copyright, fuck off, you can’t get me, ignore it, their collection of dung beetle photographs, probably awesome, very interested in the passions of the people, Midwestern Marx, Liger, patriotic communist, who is Destiny?, Twitch, in conversation with other people, Steven Kenneth Bonnell II, it is not genocide if it is during a war, don’t tell him, Omaha, Nebraska, superwhite, most Cubans in the united states, dispossessed, Evan says “I like Vaush”, he likes him, streamers or youtubers, American youtuber, the Hugo kerfuffle, used to have one of those ear gages things, about audiobooks, passionately doing, voting for Biden to help your portfolio, Scott Miller, he’s not an analyzer, 2022 output, Imagination, Planet Stories, episode zero, recording the unrecorded, noble, a perfectionist, make it as good as possible, good at voices, got pretty good taste, I’m in love with you, sir, one everyday, Herland by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, far enough out, one question about Queen Of Air And Darkness, orienting question, some blood quantum Cherokee, just as mentioned, the woman is like let them keep their ways, put them on a reservation, interesting of course, what that’s about, what’s the significance of that if any?, Dercum Audio, Thompson, or Tetty?, for the sake of Will, the name of the author in the files, free audiobooks, Tom Tetty, the last glow of the last sunset, left in the ‘if you your cassette is not working’, collecting stamps, media archaeology, how much tech has changed, Books On Tape, amalgamated and amalgamated, now Audible owns everything, whole scandal going on, Findaway voices scandal, go back to the basics: audiobooks for the damned, an Amber series fan fiction, John Betancourt, costs money, disgusting, how to do a lot of copyright, actively trying to make money at a basically impossible task, megapacks, legal dispute over the word “megapack”, trying to make a living, sad for Paul, he’s playing a rigged game, you know you’re getting scammed, worse and more corrupt, this book sucks, why is it getting a Hugo award, They’d Rather Be Right, Mark Clifton, co authored book, why are you playing, school’s business is not education, obey orders, learn propaganda, babysit you, not the prevailing sentiment, so mean to his students, otherwise you are subject to them, how would you know?, the etymology, solved with drills, shampoo is a scam, why is shampoo a scam?, of course, I’m normal, it smells nice, soap does not have the same effect, axe body spray, bad for them, that they have to use up, that don’t help them, we’re taught it, what did people do before toothpaste?, we just buy the shit they tell us to, a history of shampoo, since ancient times, long hair, a daily indulgence, putting yourself in the upperclass, something people do, learning to play piano, they feel like they need to, it’s all unconscious, what shampoo do you use?, if you’re a girl, get away with having no hair, punish girls in France for having babies with nazis, nazi babies, her hair!, proportional to the crime, a truth and reconciliation process, just solved it with a haircut, as much as a woman values your hair, you can’t have books for six years, a horrible punishment, you’d have to talk to people, what books have you read recently? they have to struggle, some school assignment, can’t we be friends?, people are talking about a book you should read, so rare, do French people read at all?, they read more than Americans, probably dying a cultural affectation, a sociological study of who reads non-fiction cultural books, it is good to learn stuff, some books are not meant to be read, anything written by Barack Obama, briefing books for their activists, Hillary Clinton, report on what’s in there, they don’t know what they’re saying to their ghost writers, a lot of shit for school, get to read Othello, Shakespeare is so fuckin awesome, the sexy one, The Taming Of The Shrew, way in, new theory just dropped, Iago’s the badguy, undermine Othello and his marriage, Iago’s gay for Othello, pretty good theory, I hate the moor, you act like you’re obsessed with him, interpretations, reaching for Desdemona, Iago reaches for Othello, a cool interpretation, a cool tragedy, this last information, shampoo your hair, eating and sleeping, ammonium laurel suphate, rub the glycol all around, people won’t object to your hair anymore, eat more yeast, some problems with flatulence, we’ll book it next time, relationship with shampoo, how often?, how many ablutions per day, once a month?, more than once a week, struggle to say more than that, another product, try never to use it, long hair, big, afro like, get a bidet, bidets are my new religion, buy a second one, very useful, saves money, cleanly, saves time, very Heinleinian, the fresher, oh no!, used to being clean, not covered in paper shit, mandatory, standard, a propaganda campaign, if you learn nothing else: bidets are the way, blog posts, setting up a blog is annoying, manage account names, to give Musk money, longform reads, tweet threads, an opportunity cost, twitter is a reading diary, searchable, shareable, David H. Keller 2023 tweets, a popular magazine, Popular Publications, topics Will could explore, freeform, follow your passion, engaging with audio, get more fiction into you, sitting sucks, not wasting time and money, post there, if you got offline, the internet has been ruined, google doesn’t listen blogs anymore, they don’t exist anymore, defunded, duckduckgo started caving to the baddies, go to the websites, what’s a better search engine?, the dot com, blog search, so focused on extracting money it doesn’t do its service anymore, the guy in the store today, he thought he was a good institution, a part of the community, enjoying the things he provided to the community, mom and pop restaurants still exist in small towns, what happened?, it’s all wrecked, it’s tough, store restaurant gas station, cute and nice, minimal population, cheap land, people with time and interest in being able to subsidize a small gas station restaurant, this doesn’t seem so foreign, a familiar Kentucky thing, Culver’s, ice cream custard?, a thick ice cream, best frozen custard, Dairy Queen Blizzard, Concrete mixer, mix in your rocks, have you ever had a jelly baby?, Doctor Who candy, a dalek, penny candy for kids, shaped like little babies, better flavours, blackcurrant, delicious and subtle, blackberries are free, nobody grows blackberries on purpose, her microclimate is very dry, not a lot of extra water for blackberries, a post a week, the pace, what Will’s doing with his life right now, sequester, a tablet, dreams, no shampoo, eating black currants, look at the list of ingredients and then look them up, Harry’s mens products, accused of enjoying the smell of things to much, overdosed on perfumes, laundry detergent with no scent, unscented detergent, unscented cat litter, you should smell like nothing, stone scented deodorant, antiperspirants, toothpaste, toothpicks, Nelson Mandela’s autobiography, boarding school, ashes, doesn’t sound delicious, enjoying the flavour of toothpaste, there’s no movements like this, veganism is the new religion, anti-scent religion, how sensitive people are to autism, not just stuff injected into your body, covered in rashes, a sensitive organ, the whole purpose is to make fucking money, all products produced under capitalism, how these things go, love LibriVox, recording audiobooks in their basements, a prison project for prisoners to record audiobooks, a serial killer recorded some V.C. Andrews, very interesting, prison book programs, you could study and it is not mandatory, a privilege, turn them all into lawyers, a student today, push a lot of science fiction and fantasy, the excuse is vocab, vocabulary through poems, god forbid, essays, so fucking awful, book introductions, little editorial prefaces, Robert Silverberg’s Worlds Of Wonder, what he thinks are awesome stories, Alfred Bester, C.L. Moore, so good, paid him money, The Monsters by Robert Sheckley, sent to Scott, Scanners Live In Vain, Colony, Light Of Other Days, Day Million, Who Am I Which Are You, The Triumph Of Honest Bellamy, Don’t Forget To Kill Your Wife, Fuzzy Puzzle Odyssey, Six Plots For The Price Of One, I Trusted The Rug Completely, A Boy, A Girl, A Lovestory, 164, respect yes, wobbly publishers, fine feelings, a demi-god, 1953, Philadelphia, Columbia, professional writers, verges are uncomfortable places, immense lobby, Harlan Ellison, a little stir in the lobby, a slender graceful man, that’s Ted Sturgeon, James Blish, Willy Ley, recently skipped an essay by him, grinny broadly, buoyant, envy, admiration, hope, on every contents page, Untouched By Human Hands, with very close attention, role models, his instant rise to fame, tremendously prolific, tabulated by author, 24 stories, only Philip K. Dick had more with 28, he made it all look so easy, just grace, agility, ingenuity, Henry Kuttner, out of the simplest materials, cleverness, delicacy of touch, trading jokes with my fellow celebrities, no story worth reading ever was easy to write, products of anguished revision, keep up a the job day in and out, a lot fore people today, vunderjar, Seventh Victim, scant 4000 words, turning the familiar upside down, wondrous, the dissonance that gives rise to the plot, the tone will be light, it was undoubtedly the newest thing, compact, uncluttered, efficient, a substance resembling fire, an astonishing hook, they slithered down the mountainside together, a murder mystery?, a science fiction story, socially desirable for men to kill their wives, he will need only 4000 words to do the job, the aliens are puzzled by the intentions, suspense, holding his reader’s interest, the ritual slaughter of wives, most of us, too simple, but what? what!, a calm serious manner, are they moral?, this from a man who has just killed his wife, among the other debaters, hideous aliens, morality is very important, the visitors are so repellent, put them out of their misery, lean sparse style, to the surplus female pen, 2 more pages, the important thing to find out, if it has become apparent yet, the moral beings, we’re back with Gulliver in the land of the Houyhnhnm, the misanthropic Swift, fable, plausibility was not an issue, cunning brains and useful hands, doodle up, a lot of people need to learn this, his world of wifekillers, some convincing rationale, pure exposition, married females lay eggs every day, simply a fact of biology there, the problem of surplus women, polygamy, too intricate, a great nunnery far away, the gentlest possible solution, the grotesque solution, serial polygamy, otherwise excluded, casual unthinking sexism, allowed to reach maturity, married sisters, the next group of wives, meanwhile, the leisure to spend their time in philosophical debate, annoyingly deficient in logic, Heinlein would like this, a splendidly logical system, overenthusiastic slaughter, equilibrium, past mating age, mortal combat, we who subscribe, modern India today, wife-murder, governed by high moral imperative, telling untruths, a host of other evil customs, destroy our way of life, decent and righteous customs, so elegantly constructed, parable so deftly, craftsmanship, light entertainment, inspiring esteem and envy, already a master of his craft, that’s how to write an essay, just crank him out, undertaken a program to do so, secret hidden stuff, seeing it and making it explicitly, making you see stuff, vocab words at least, you need to understand what they’re for and what the teacher wants, if they judge you on your dancing, a better hobby than writing an exercise, group dance, usually about half an hour, a movie review, movies are better than TV shows, reviews Star Trek episodes, some good Next Generation, take notes, The Twilight Zone, you don’t know what you’re getting each time, generally science fiction, a fantasy, a satire, social commentary, quite difficult to watch anthologies back to back to back, find the original stories, look at them in that light, very focused right now, easily distract, tutoring, coffee, Connor, No-Man’s Land by John Buchan, fairy cave men, exciting plans, a chapter in The Way The Future Was by Frederick Pohl, the admirable Pohl, teenage dalliance with communism, Amazing Stories novel, The Space Merchants, a rush job, Kornbluth has sharp teeth, a moderating influence?, sleeping in the stairwells, making us laugh, Search The Sky by Cyril M. Kornbluth and Frederik Pohl, The Advent On Channel 12 by C.M. Kornbluth, cheap server, servers in North Korea, servers on a satellite, what the fuck is this?, he’s really smart and he doesn’t play dumb, Ambrose Bierce, tricky, start with the famous one, also a French one, An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge, Ambrose Bierce is like Mark Twain’s evil brother, he’s still alive!, 1914 to cover the Mexican Revolution, may have got got, see you in cyberspace.

The Split by Richard Stark

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #598 – READALONG: The Mist by Stephen King

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #598 -Jesse, Scott Danielson, Paul Weimer, Marissa VU, Evan Lampe, Mr Jim Moon, and Alec Nevala-Lee talk about The Mist by Stephen King

Talked about on today’s show:
Dark Forces, 1980, Skeleton Crew, 1984 audio drama, Meatball Fulton, the 2007 movie adaptation, the terrible TV adaptation, a German audio drama?, who doesn’t like Stephen King?, America’s greatest popular novelist, people don’t like Stephen King’s endings, his narration tool, awesome endings, eucatastrophe, everything published until he turned 14, same, similar, Insomnia, changing style, the best time to read Stephen King is when it’s too young to be appropriate, Marissa’s eyes were opened, the scales were lifted from your eyes, mimetic fiction, a bridge novelist, a weird continuity, Mr Jim Moon’s bookshelves, the book cover of Carrie, New English Library, what the hell is the shining?, the psychic power, Salem’s Lot, Christmas and birthdays, a binge, a glut, a fear of big books, reading on Kindle, Terry Pratchett, highlighting observations, a heat map, your Dean Koontzs and James Herberts, very well put, tied up in audio, superior audiobooks, the most popular adaptation among fans, The Stand, Frank Muller, the different seasons, The Dark Tower, the Frank Muller narrated version of The Mist, the artist is mentioned, Hieronymus Bosch, Paul’s Stephen King’s experience, Firestarter in Omni Magazine, the Stephen King lake (there’s always something in that lake), Jesse is averse to popular, Cujo, The Running Man, Jesse is worried that his thesis is right, wise or wry observations of human behavior, King is telling us, a Hitchcock ending, a found document, The House On The Borderlands, the framing device, Lovecraft gets a shout-out, meta-mentioned, aliens, why Stranger Things was so popular, all those things that people are highlighting in Stephen King books, instinctually, amp up the drama, three sips of his beer, drinking beer all the whole day, out of alcoholism, cheating on his wife, he shoots his whole family, its transferred, making the main character less of an asshole, its okay that he cheats on his wife, hardscrabble, movie posters, The Dark Tower and The Thing, a more appealing protagonist, the sexual politics of this, moralistic about monogamy, the centerpiece of the drama, in his thoughts a little bit, the mom is missed more than the wife, replacement moms, replacement wife, the four bullets, we’re left to decide, seeing the book in relief, Darabont’s a hack, The Green Mile, Weird Tales, 1937, an error in the film, so faithful to the book in dialogue, the extra soldier, the neighbour is black, The Shawshank Redemption, a definitive ending, a noir ending makes it all the better, concretely solid as a story, A Quiet Place, the hear you instead of sniffing you, all these zombie stories, at least three actors from The Walking Dead, a distillation of so much, The Mist is a ground level version of The Night Wire by H.F. Arnold, the most popular story in Weird Tales ever, an internal monologue, reporting what it’s like to die, the foibles of all the people in the grocery store, “Food House”, a very choice decision, this is all happening out there, the emotional drama, why Stephen King translates so well to film, a skull-face, it amps up your eeuughs, the people dont trust each other, Mrs. Carmady, we see ourselves in her, a difference between the text and the movie, Christianity and folk stuff, psychic, frustrating, crazy fundamentalism, insidious in the book, recent events, people are that stupid here and now, unacknowledged psychics, The Dead Zone, nobodies who rise to political power, Under The Dome, fear of political zealots and cults, a great Covid story, we’re leaving, King read this stuff, *I AM INSPIRED BY THIS*, H.P. Lovecraft and Sonia Greene’s The Horror At Martin’s Beach, what’s identical is us viewing, it’s not about upper class and lower class, out-of-towners vs. locals, the boundary dispute starts off the story, what’s so cool, his psychology is all over the page, Philip K. Dick, very instinctually, my magic spell words, I drink too much, one for the road, drink more beer, some people know they have drinking problems, at the end of Skeleton Crew there’s a note on how it was written, taking this event from your own life, a very methodical way, great details, observant touches, the class tensions, John Updike, built on this interesting fusion, he isn’t an occult researcher, he’s just a dude, a painter, he paints his picture for us, wherever their faithful, the name of the car is the same kind of car, International Harvester Scout vs. Toyota Landcruiser, a very specific region and mental state, a pseudo-explanation for why all this stuff is happening, the secret military base, we need this scenario, lined up for toilet paper, who’s not wearing a mask, follow the rules, how all of this works, what was the right thing for me to do, going to the drugstore, what was the best thing anyone could have done in this scenario, drink beer, play pinochle, a metaphor for the Vietnam War, these experiences, the atmosphere of 1980s, ultimately they’re fighting the Soviets, he’s actually speaking to a particular set of events for people who are not responsible directly, a nostalgia hit, there’s much more to it than the politics, he writes about where he knows, a temperature map, bad political takes on twitter, he’s a boomer, the Vietnam War and John F. Kennedy, 11-22-63, they’ve held up so well, Danse Macabre, the Patty Hearst case, a global pandemic, a very specific moment, 1990, a late 70s story, he didn’t revise it enough, the Symbionese Liberation Army, copy and replace, written right after The Stand, Bird Box, an invasion from outside, usually after the events, the explanation for why the monsters are the way they are, Project Arrowhead, overheard at the library, what you hear is going on, no one is responsible, we’re all responsible, “nobody knew”, “no one could have foreseen this”, why the TV show is terrible, scattering the people, the monsters in the mist, an alternative ecosystem in which we are made irrelevant, The Men In The Walls by William Tenn, a cool idea, are the evils in the grocery store are manifested by the monsters in the mist (in the TV show adaptation), King has them completely separated, they’re not here to eat us, that’s how they are, Mrs. Carmody isn’t right, cosmic indifference causes beer drinking, its all for nothing, why King is better at this, he understands this on the cellular level, a reflection on his own psychological experience with it, the family dog didn’t want to be that way, down the same path, Dark Tower 6 or 7, move between these worlds, a retcon, a mistake, Dark Tower 3, these institutions, North Central Positronics, how institutions appear in King’s early fiction, the storm is what caused it, The Men Who Stare At Goats, if you look at their CV, [Prof. Courtney Brown] working on remote viewing, failing upward, now I teach kids, The Window by H.P. Lovecraft, in Fungi From Yuggoth,

The house was old, with tangled wings outthrown,
Of which no one could ever half keep track,
And in a small room somewhat near the back
Was an odd window sealed with ancient stone.
There, in a dream-plagued childhood, quite alone
I used to go, where night reigned vague and black;
Parting the cobwebs with a curious lack
Of fear, and with a wonder each time grown.

One later day I brought the masons there
To find what view my dim forbears had shunned,
But as they pierced the stone, a rush of air
Burst from the alien voids that yawned beyond.
They fled – but I peered through and found unrolled
All the wild worlds of which my dreams had told.

that piercing, this curious monkey thing, roll our tanks into Moscow behind their lines, if he could have waited a few minutes he this whole story made no sense, his school shooting book [Rage by Stephen King], he’s thinking about killing his family, the army comes in and fixes things, undermining the cynicism, that he didn’t kill himself, he shot his son after abandoning his wife, he went there, that Chinatown (1974) ending, compare this to The Shawshank Redemption‘s ending, the mist just goes away, I think those tentacles came out of that beer can, the trucks, the woman who left right away, locals who had made better decisions, the politics of it are quite interesting, the military guys are wearing masks, its a gas causing hallucinations, an extra, faceless government guys, the Iraq quagmire, the surge will work, the military was cleaning up, burning cocoons off the trees, they’re saving the people, pretty powerful, Scott was not pleased by the ending in the theater, “we went straight to the bookstore from the theatre”, Stephen King’s hopeful ending, something drastic, the psychic part, a dire situation, it might not be real, he thought he heard the word “Hartford”, there’s no narrator in the audio drama, we’re just being show the sound, like a microphone in the pocket of one of the characters, eliminating his own hope, saving them from the horror, pro-hope, I would rather sit here for a minute, I guess we gotta do it, they were safe for a minute, the whole point of this exercise is doomed, not consistent with King’s character as a writer, Pet Semetary, evil is defeated provisionally, they’re so faithful up to the tone of the book up to that point, the ending of Salem’s Lot is the beginning, he doesn’t want to go to that very bleak ending, collecting graffiti from the bathroom stalls of truck-stops, the maid will find it, his notebook saves this guy’s life, an optimistic happy ending, a real phenomenon, all these gun deaths, assault style rifles, avoid breaking down the gun deaths, most US gun deaths are suicides, if you have drugs in your house, we have these states where we change, things will look better in the morning, son, “I was as honest as I could be”, not wiser (they just have more experience), here have a hug, a confection, Castle Rock, exploiting or adapting, wasn’t that part cool, it has the shining music, a kid like in Stand By Me, E.T., straight from his unconscious, he’s not constructing it using a plot generator, a car really obsessed, a superhuman level of attention to detail, a kid crying in the sandlot, the boathouse, wonderfully modeled, a Parliament cigarette, Pepsi, Purina, what it was like to be a middle class American in 1980s, this is not how the world is now, Castle Rock does a better job of getting King (like Darabont does), characters, memorable characters, It, the most accurate depiction of 12 year olds, still accurate at 38, people do that and there isn’t always consequences, every transgression is punished, punished for an act of mercy, Mrs. Carmody would have been right, movies for adults, The Big Chill, suburban adultery, closely observed modernist fiction, lets go on vacation, these dark thoughts on the road, the best depictions of being a writer, why you need that axe, if I can just change stuff up I can finish the book, I’m outlining a new writing project and four months of peace and quiet are what I need, from the very first scene, this Jack Torrence is absolutely crazy, vs. a descent into madness, moral corruption, Kubrick’s film is great, ghosts are allowed to be in novels, the New York Times review of Dark Forces, cinematic writing, is there a story he’s produced that hasn’t been adapted at least once, Revival is going to be adapted, is it because his writing is so cinematic?, the King name, pacing and people, so much happens in the last hour, the audio drama skips the first two chapters, the 1984 text adventure computer game, missing the foundation, an excellent artifact, many many audio dramas available, the 1980s was dry as hell, Fred Greenhalgh and Radio Drama Revival, so innovative, don’t short shrift the audio drama, that 3-D effect, this is really scary, you’re in that grocery store with those people, ‘there’s something in the mist and it looks like this’, Maissa Bessada, its definitely scary, in a film, all those eggs inside that guy, some great effects, a little bit of Aliens (1986) in there, the spiders are on our side, an alien ecology, what is their vegetation, the vegetation doesn’t spill in, The War Of The Worlds, triffids, he’s about the psychology, psychic plants, From A Buick 8, the architecture of the car is all wrong, Thomas Jane, one of the monsters is a D&D one, if Stephen King had been born Stephina King, that’s a guy thing, facts about the cars, being that he’s a dude, old cars from the 50s, an AMC AMX, it looks so cool, it would be different if he was a woman, if he had a female brain, what would those obsessions be, obsession with duck breeds, “what’s with the doilies, ladies?”, video games have really changed people’s brains, game clothes, their obsessions are going to be different, he tends to be very contemporary, Cell, a cellphone used as a flashlight, now nobody has flashlights, the mist knocked out the signal, the radio, “the internet’s out, what can we do!?”, Jesse’s favourite scene, I’m going to get you a Spider-Man, a Spider-Man and an Incredible Hulk too!, sitting on the dock for a few hour with a comic book, totally absorbed, something for the dentist to work on later.

The Mist by Stephen King - read by Frank Muller

The Mist In 3D Sound

The Mist by Stephen KingThe Mist by Stephen King

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The SFFaudio Podcast #558 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Horror At Martin’s Beach by Sonia Greene and H.P. Lovecraft

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #558 – The Horror At Martin’s Beach by Sonia Greene and H.P. Lovecraft; read by Martin Reyto (for Legamus.eu). This is an unabridged reading of the short story (18 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Marissa VU, Wayne June, and Terrence Blake

Talked about on today’s show:
Sonia H. Greene, The Invisible Monster, Weird Tales, prenuptial contract, courtship, the sea is New York, drugged to New York, interesting, Lovecraft components, Lovecraft skeleton, originally titled, a much last apt title, you never find invisible things, Lovecraft’s commonplace book, [entry 51: Enchanted garden where moon casts shadow of object or ghost invisible to the human eye.], The Moon Bog, The Dreamquest Of Unknown Kadath, the Moon as a giant egg, “I have never heard an even approximately adequate explanation of the horror at Martin’s Beach.”, the baby, the mother, a single eye, another invisible something, my fancy conjured up still another eye, the eye is the Moon, everybody is assuming its the mom, where does it say it in the story, deep grief, Iron Shadows In The Moon, the father, how do they know its a baby, it had its baby teeth, the layering, small for a cosmic being, demi-cosmic, that new baby smell, not very scientific, the most amazing discrepancies, Captain Orne, if Eric [Rabkin] was here, it rained for forty nights, taxidermied, P.T. Barnum, a mermaid is a seal grafted on to a baby, DC horror comics from the 1970s, I want comics god-damn it, True Ghost Tales, Minnesota, bigfoot displayed in a van, a monkey suit with modifications, “The object was some fifty feet in length, of roughly cylindrical shape, and about ten feet in diameter. It was unmistakably a gilled fish in its major affiliations; but with certain curious modifications, such as rudimentary forelegs and six-toed feet in place of pectoral fins, which prompted the widest speculation.” selling hokum,

The naturalists had shown plainly that it radically differed from the similarly immense fish caught off the Florida coast; that, while it was obviously an inhabitant of almost incredible depths, perhaps thousands of feet, its brain and principal organs indicated a development startlingly vast, and out of all proportion to anything hitherto associated with the fish tribe.

John Lilly‘s communications with dolphins, sons of Poseidon, a species, cyclops kitten, a half-god, his out, his wife wrote that part, the depths of the oceans being unexplored they harbour life-forms that have one eye, bioluminescence, otherworldly, monster ideas from the depths of the sea, symmetry is for weaklings, scientific men are people who work for Orne, fakes, but not this time, revenge mom, The Beast (1996), William Petersen, Beast by Peter Benchley, no mothering instinct, projection by the readers and Sonia Greene, the evil men who stole the baby, Captain Orne as Ulysses, a mythological interpretation, the old one version of Poseidon, we’re bringing the female idea to it, a trope, throughout nature, bear cubs, the daddy bear gives no shits, dads don’t care, human vs. animal, dads do care, almost nothing happens, stylistic preparation, a real life event, a simple horror story, a cosmic dimension, a moralistic dimension, two different readings, Ridley Scott thought Deckard was a replicant, eternal revenge, a purpose so revolting to my brain, revenge isn’t revolting, collateral damage, all humanity was guilty, a species wide revenge, humans all look alike, my fifty foot baby, what humans do, all the wolves are killed for the crime of one wolf, a storm came twice, wrapping up his business, he’s ornery, “get revenge”, its planned all this out, set aside your propensity for disbelief, here she/he/it comes, make the presence known, grieving and scheming, you killed my baby and now you’re throwing shit at me?, an inordinate indication of intelligence, an article by Professor Alton about hypnotic powers not being confined to recognized humanity, there trickled upon my ears the faint and sinister echoes of a laugh, only humans and hyenas, they laugh at anything, a sad laugh, read it with skepticism, what is the horror?, is it the thing?, or was it that people were frozen?, electricity explains it, hacksaw to the hempen line, there is no hempen line, that’s their interpretation, a proposed theory, what if there was never a line to begin with, physically hooking on to people, less about the specific thing in the water, the way the Moon plays on the water, everybody is turned into frogs, the Moon was about a foot above the water, a coin at arms length, from what angle?, phenomenological vs. actual, what’s that over there?, the moon looks gigantic, its about the hypnotism theory, why the people fail to act, that’s the horror, a huge part of the horror, if we read it that way the invisible monster is us, retire to your room, the narrator’s perspective, death march, resigned to fate, so real and creepy, not calling for help, not struggling, looking back over their shoulders in fear, a perfect description of this universe,

And as I gazed out beyond the heads, my fancy conjured up still another eye; a single eye, equally alight, yet with a purpose so revolting to my brain that the vision soon passed. Held in the clutches of an unknown vise, the line of the damned dragged on; their silent screams and unuttered prayers known only to the demons of the black waves and the night-wind.

a cluster of religious stuff, the voice of heaven resounded with the blasphemies of hell, ventriloquism, a cyclopean din, her pallid beams, a whirlpool, the narrator laughing, that interpretation, the hyena is laughing because its sad, even creepier, gallows humour, forelegs, one big eye, a laugh?, angler-fish, glowing eyes, feet on the chest, what it’s all for?, sure you did, bub, they know about the fishy tribes, Martin’s Beach has hills with cabins, veranda, a vacation spot, the rich above, the poorer below, above and below,

It was in the twilight, when grey sea-birds hovered low near the shore and a rising moon began to make a glittering path across the waters. The scene is important to remember, for every impression counts. On the beach were several strollers and a few late bathers; stragglers from the distant cottage colony that rose modestly on a green hill to the north, or from the adjacent cliff-perched Inn whose imposing towers proclaimed its allegiance to wealth and grandeur.

the horror is is the coverup by the hotel, the same dynamic you see in Jaws, the corporate is the horror, Aha, I got the formula now!, community vs. the individual, what the fuck happened, everybody’s involved, Fair Game by Philip K. Dick, Professor Anthony Douglas, numerous grunts, his ample middle, a nuclear scientist in Colorado, gold bars on the side of the road, this is the weirdest thing, he’s in his easy chair, an eye the size of the entire sky, any giant sky monsters over Colorado?, Fair Game on SickMyDuck.narod.ru:

Shapes. Two enormous shapes squatting down. Two incredibly huge figures bending over. One was drawing in the net. The other watched, holding something in its hand. A landscape. Dim forms too vast for Douglas to comprehend.

At last, a thought came. What a struggle.

It was worth it, thought the other creature.

Their thoughts roared through him. Powerful thoughts, from immense minds.

I was right. The biggest yet. What a catch!

Must weigh all of twenty-four ragets!

At last!

Suddenly Douglas’s composure left him. A chill of horror flashed through his mind. What were they talking about? What did they mean?

But then he was being dumped from the net. He was falling. Something was coming up at him. A flat, shiny surface. What was it?

Oddly, it looked almost like a frying pan.

it doesn’t make any sense as science fiction, what’s funny is the set-up, how he’s fat, this is the sea’s revenge for fishing, it isn’t specifically about this one animal, the sea doing what we do to it, look at the tuna cans, line and pole tuna, industrialized fishing, still another reading, the Moon in relation to its proximity to the water, the gravitational pull of the Moon, The Other Gods, a lot going on, its not as crappy as it looks, William Shakespeare, as flies to wanton boys as are we to the gods, the line is flypaper, why are they pulling, someone needed rescuing, insidious, human instinct in propensity to rubberneck, cheap houses near the sea, at least some of the people came from the rich area, Weird Talers: Essays On Robert E. Howard And Others by Bobby Derie, a blog post with a letter from Sonia Greene, he was never kissed by any woman, The Private Life Of H.P. Lovecraft, Carol Weld, happily ever after (sort of), its all right there in the setup, a little softer than Lovecraft’s usual, 15 adjectives about how horrible everything is, the rest doesn’t take that statement seriously, its lacking that indifference, there’s definitely some bellows, very humanish, the easy reading is that it’s a revenge tale, my Twitter friend Jason Thompson’s illustrations, a couple on the beach, the moon low in the sky next to the fish monster, there’s some sort of massive connection, a big round thing in the sky that YOU can see, it is an eye, paranoia, ‘And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you’, human history’s relationship without the Moon, telescope, when you look at the moon, you can see mountains, it is another place, another world, comforting and horrifying, how important the universe is as a reality, profits, dancing, cottages, cars, a speck in the sea of black infinity, its hard to understate, the cosmic layer, the moon as a character, the Moon is the mother, opening a path, a way, a lane, calling down to the depths, opening the people to an influence from another reality, the bridge of moonbeams in The White Ship, I am Basil Elton,

I am Basil Elton, keeper of the North Point light that my father and grandfather kept before me. Far from the shore stands the grey lighthouse, above sunken slimy rocks that are seen when the tide is low, but unseen when the tide is high. Past that beacon for a century have swept the majestic barques of the seven seas. In the days of my grandfather there were many; in the days of my father not so many; and now there are so few that I sometimes feel strangely alone, as though I were the last man on our planet. … Very brightly did the moon shine on the night I answered the call, and I walked out over the waters to the White Ship on a bridge of moonbeams. The man who had beckoned now spoke a welcome to me in a soft language I seemed to know well, and the hours were filled with soft songs of the oarsmen as we glided away into a mysterious South, golden with the glow of that full, mellow moon.

the opening, Sonia writing in the mom part, Lovecraft writing the Moon part, layers, cynical thing, clusters of adjectives, satanic and demonic, the more religious cosmology, regular folks, weird letters received, all recapitulated in the Peter Benchley, conferences, inspiring of, A Tropical Horror by William Hope Hodgson, architeuthis, giant squid, the title, self reference, your average bear does’t have a Lovecraftian world-view, the most amazing discrepancies, no common bond, differing reports, a widely witnessed phenomenon, a tremendous difference, everybody’s unreliable, what the hell did they see?, weirder stuff happens under the Moon, Slavoj Žižek, conceiving and Žižek, Lovecraft was the terrible thing, and vice versa, a problem of habituation, kinda sick, this is going to be better for you, Virginia, he could’ve moved with her, I got all my friends and my (podcasting club), the Kalem Club, unrecorded podcasts, an anthology of just Moon stories, power of the moon, the Moon doing a ton of heavy lifting, imagine that line goes all the way out to the Moon, we can get there its just incredibly hard, gravitons are definitely a real thing, it has phases, without the Moon, what would you even look at, its so important, it looms large (especially when near the horizon), we hide from it in our cities and our houses.

Jason Thompson's (MOCKMAN) illustration of The Horror At Martin's Beach by Sonia Greene and H.P. Lovecraft

Jason Thompson sketch for The Horror At Martin's Beach

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #491 – READALONG: Some Notes On A Nonentity: The Life Of H.P. Lovecraft by Sam Gafford and Jason C. Eckhardt

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #491 – Jesse, Paul Weimer, Marissa, Mr Jim Moon and Wayne June talk about the PS Publishing hardcover comic (graphic novel) Some Notes On A Nonentity: The Life Of H.P. Lovecraft by Sam Gafford and Jason C. Eckhardt

Talked about on today’s show:
the first readalong of a comic book, a momentous occasion, Jesse’s mortgage completion, a hardcover “graphic novel”, the phrase is pretentious, Maus, Watchmen, fuck you it’s a comic book, dense art, rich, Lovecraft’s father is masked, plague doctor, a Venetian masque mask, died in an insane asylum, his mental malady, and THAT is all I care to say on the matter, the broken mask, his wife, out of Lovecraft’s own head, Lovecraft’s biography, poetry, In The Mountains Of Madness by W. Scott Poole, so racist, one year in New York, gets robbed, each story gets a big illustration, feeling bad, tearing up, that last panel, alone standing on the stage, moving, the first time seeing it, emotionally invested in his story, so human, how mad he was, super weird, fucked up, a gentleman doesn’t work, she had a mastectomy, living the life of a country gentleman, writing for amateurs, submitting on his behalf, he made it so hard for his friends, the desire to be the aristocracy, class distinctions, a time of transition, New England, a class system in operation, full of very old rich families, bad investments by his uncle, the whaling industry, super-super-rich, the details, a garbage can on page 52, Eight O’clock Coffee, hitting harder home, Lovecraft was offered the editorship of Weird Tales, Chicago, selling the furniture, a disaster caused by his 17th century deal of himself, the story of their entire marriage, rooted in the wrong place, so many biographies, a weird outsider, 1920s the Great Depression, debt collection service, not suited for the job, coax or hit, flower them into paying, the hard times coming, Ohio, outright rejection, sitting down and reading Weird Tales magazine, editorial response to letters, poems, the first two issues of Weird Tales, Farnsworth Wright, maybe it’s a good thing Lovecraft didn’t take that job, or maybe it’s a terrible thing, which it would be, a crazy, this is the magazine where everyone worships Lovecraft, every letter asks for more Lovecraft, he’s not connecting, as soon as Lovecraft dies the magazine fills up with Lovecraft, eminently forgettable, jealousy, The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward, so many scenes just alone in a room (and enjoying that), how much he loved to travel and adventure, three times to Quebec, retracing Lovecraft’s footsteps, chronological version of his life, when things happend in relation to the story, R.H. Barlow, the format, an entertainment style, no dry intellectual series of facts, why comics are so great, rewarded with pictures, seeing all the major players, Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard, Loveman and Galpin, how different Lovecraft’s America was, architecture, page 74, Sonia in deep pain, a painful episode, moving a cow, a cat on his head, what a weird dude he was, Edith Miniter, why this is such a great book, showing the connection between experience and fiction, Superman, Batman, DC Comics, Marvel, X-Men, underground comics, Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers, Fat Freddy’s Cat, drug dealers handing out comics, headshops, Guru, crystals, hemp pants, the preserve of shops like this, collected editions, Knockabout Press, Jason Thompson’s Mockman comics, Savage Sword Of Conan, black and white comics, so much more to see in black and white, the line of the mouth, how the room is organized around distancing characters apart, arm-in-arm, Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud, the Fungi From Yuggoth Cycle, three sonnets, the stacks on high, never designed for colour, bullshit complaint, Jesse shut himself down, what if I’m wrong, even the fonts, a whole sense that you can’t get when reading a regular biography, a one man job, each page is signed (and dated), years of labour, a treasure of art and information, the framing, on a stage, back on the stage, the last image on the last page, the empty stage, the other perspective, page 77, a gentleman does not divorce his wife, the little Janus head, people chasing after him, the night walks, what a great biography, a work of genius!, written in first person, a cool way to sneak in his opinions and thoughts, to segue into his letters, seamless, page 60, humming, finances are not great, every time Jesse calls Wayne or Jim, The Recluse, Supernatural Horror In Literature, an amateur magazine, a guy desperately in need of a Patreon, Wayne is no gentleman, the Weird Tales letters pages, huge proof, almost getting a major collection, the worst salesman ever, the copyright, with the kind permission of, maybe sometimes you’re doing work for hire when you don’t know you were, an entire issue of Weird Tales could have been under copyright, the collection was under copyright, persisting in comics, Image Comics, Alterna Comics, working for Marvel, Steve Ditko, Roy Thomas, so many times his life could have gone a lot better, a gentleman doesn’t press the matter, barristers and solicitors, no resources, exasperation in his life, to hell with it, what would WWI have taught Lovecraft had he survived enlistment?, artillery making mush, gas, just war?, subject to propaganda, a terrible shame, a pointless war, Mr Jim Moon studied the WWI at university, who said what to who’s aunt, the assassination, pride, self-destructive pride, a full page for Arthur Machen, The Bowmen, Out Of The Earth, tell me more about that, what’s that dude melting?, the whole genre of weird fiction, that little bit of Latin, the devil incarnate is humanity in truth, the first issue of Weird Tales, the attention to detail that you never get in commercial works, done because they love it, really inspiring, to honour it, in the best tradition, the Necronomicon convention in Rhode Island, The Journal Of William Hope Hodgson Studies, Carnacki, mummy horror, Sherlock Holmes, Arthur Machen with Jack The Ripper, Saucy Robot Stories, pulp fiction from the 1930s, Helen O’Loy, prolific, a Lovecraft expert, covers for Necronomicon Press, annotated H.P. Lovecraft, the Jason C. Echkardt Tumblr, The Derelict by William Hope Hodgson, Lovecraft as a communicable disease, you should write a story about this location, I haven’t been kissed by a woman since I was a very small child, working the night-shift as a movie theater ticket taker, R’Lyeh theatre, a 900 word biography, the connection between amateur magazines and blogs and podcasts, done for the love of the stuff, Wayne needs his own booth, a whole bunch of people who’ve read, holy shit that’s Kim Stanley Robinson coming up the escalator, that’s Larry Niven asleep beside me, go in disguise, that getting out of bed thing, eye contact is the start of a lot of terrible, a Venetian mask, cosplaying as Wayne June, stock left, PSPublishing, Best Eldritch Wishes, Best Lovecraftian Wishes, attention to detail, collecting author signatures, there’s so much going on on the internet, it’s a big place, bigger than you can imagine, two pages with hand drawn maps, damn it’s got it all!

Some Notes On A Nonentity The Life Of H.P. Lovecraft by Sam Gafford and Jason C. Eckhardt

Some Notes On A Nonentity The Life Of H.P. Lovecraft by Sam Gafford and Jason C. Eckhardt page 6

Some Notes On A Nonentity The Life Of H.P. Lovecraft by Sam Gafford and Jason C. Eckhardt page 34

Some Notes On A Nonentity by Sam Gafford and Jason C. Eckhardt page 75

Some Notes On A Nonentity The Life Of H.P. Lovecraft by Sam Gafford and Jason C. Eckhardt page 65

Posted by Jesse Willis