The SFFaudio Podcast #834 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Gods Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs

The SFFaudio Podcast #830 – The Gods Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs, read by Mark Nelson for (LibriVox). This is a complete and unabridged audiobook (8 hours 33 minutes), followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Will Emmons, and Alex (Pulpcovers)

Talked about on today’s show:
serialized in All-Story, January-May 1913, the first book, 1912, ten years have gone by, A Princess Of Mars, the atmosphere processor, Cohagen, kicked back to earth, told to his nephew Edgar Rice Burroughs, strange mausoleum, dead on the bluff, coffin, strict instructions, shrug, I was back on Mars!, ends on a cliffhanger, two manuscripts with him, no more gettin stuck places, know how much you love my writin, couldn’t bare to leave my wife, kidnapped again, ignore the fact there are 8 more backs after this?, what happened to Woola, Woola stayed home, alive enough to make it to the air factory, goes with Dejah to the white apes, first book guy, a dog of mars, The Dogs Of Mars, Jack London’s becoming a wild white ape dog, lizard dog thing, tusks, don’t read series, some interesting stuff in here, the black man pirate, gives the mythology or biology of the creation of the peoples of mars, very Edgar Rice Burroughs, crazy crazy stuff, as a mythology, world tree, Babylonian, very cool, favourite John Carter story, shaved a couple of the rough corners off, coincidence level, utterly shameless, and there he was on a whole planet, any direction will take you north, drift for two days, random direction, a smaller planet than earth, the Little Prince, if he runs really quick and jumps he can see the top of his own head, the nested fake religion conspiracy thing, real heaven over there, Gulliver Of Mars, mental hospital, Edwin Lester Arnold, [The Wonderful Adventures Of] Phra The Phoenician, it’s funny, sillier, not as heroic, more ridiculous, library action, weird gender stuff, polar area, glaciers, deposit their stuff in glacial lakes, collecting all their jewelry, heaven is fake, very similar to what we have here, eaten by plant men, limited ecosystem, very few vegetables, drink plant milk eat vegan cheese, one of the lower races, totally soy, Thark nutrition, saved in the desert by finding this milkweed, dead world, dying world, been dying for a million years, an old world, ecology is all used up, seas dried up, it’s fun, very silly, go with it, ten years?, I’m back!, meets his best bud, here’s my son, how martian years are different, is his son 5 years old?, hatches, a white egg, monotrim?, monotreme wife, hatch ready to fight, egg grows over time, nutrient packed, advanced martian biology, must take a lot out of a woman, Carthoris, jumped the shark, a few other things, gets pirates wrong again, fake pirates, the black pirates that live on the moon, super-advanced, extinct volcano, c they don’t eat themselves, yellow people, cross breed, black, white and yellow martians, Borderlands, movie that nobody likes, too long, didn’t need going back to Helium, chopping down 50 plant men, put in prison for a year, tunnels of Mars, just enough time to build a whole bunch of battleships, 1000 ships, little boats, Tars Tarkas says: I got my dudes, not just airships, also submarines, retrofitted, never seen water, they had a guy, the radium revolvers, the bullets are all handmade by Thark maidens, Afghanistan/Pakistan, ancient weapons, but radium?, the new hotness, not explosive, poisoned to death, radium explained, martian hieroglyphic means radium, explosive on mars, no helium involved, all transliterated, by our co-author, all mistakes, astrocharts, not going to bore you with that, late huge footnote, don’t want to throw the story off, the number of days, the Martian day, the Martian year, pulled it up in the encyclopedia, that footnote, this was the popular media at the time, people were a lot smarter back then, weird ideas, racism, eugenics, getting dumber, getting less literate, other media, without having to pre-learn, computer or video games, most consumable media, rizz skibidi toilet happening, long hand with a quill, the good stuff, more work, average text, at the time of the American revolution, high gothic English, written by people trained on high classics, more accessible, produce easier text, not complete rot, but pretty rotten, becomes verbal, Joss Whedon dialogue, books written in the last 10 years, raised on Buffy The Vampire Slayer, to make somebody cool, raised on sitcoms, I heard this about this book, The Kaiju Preservation Society by John Scalzi, that just happened, Godzilla Minus One (2023), John Scalzi writing a teenage girl, probably got a couple of teenage daughters, swore off of David Brin, guy looking at a computer screen describing a battle in another solar system, uplift stuff, read Lester Del Rey’s story [The Faithful], treading water, Will’s essay about the other book, weird American morality, something going on, summarize, hot take, Thark green man culture, breeds haphazardly, like snakes having sex, the chieftan directs who mates with whom, the greatest warrior ever accidently falls in love, queer in context, quote tweeting, being heteronormative is queer, raise your own kids in an atomic family (very queer), on purpose?, horrible place, break with tradition, adaptations, Del Comics adaptation of this book, completely dressed from head to toe, frogman with gloves on, wearing pants, it doesn’t make sense to dress them unless, it was the fifties, nudity, Dynamite Deja Thoris, naked Deja Thoris on every cover, mostly naked, not very memorable, the art’s nice, Edgar Rice Burroughs tic, preHeinlein Heinlein Tarzan and Barsoom, nudism, bodily transported to mars with his clothes on, the excuse, astral projection, real body on the other end, ghost planet, a transporter, his old body is also left behind, prudism, issues with that movie, not completely nude, not a settler colonialist, gone native, bringing his own, you and I can be friends, Woola can be my dog like an earth dog, normalizing certain aspects of American and earth culture, don’t believe in this bad religion, a reformer, he doesn’t bring his Christianity with him, the gods eating, reverse communion, blasphemous, Abraham and Isaac, give me you son I’m hungry, blog post, that’s against your culture, change the culture in a positive way, is Burroughs doing that on purpose?, bring them back to the good way, cave castle, raises his own baby, they’re almost communists, they’re the kind of communism, anything I don’t like is communism, you won’t raise your own child, a hobby horse against communism, The Moon Maid, Tarzan The Invincible, I’m here for you, swearing your lives, I’ll be your slave, the slaves were thrilled, I get stand behind your missing wife’s seat, Thuvia Maid Of Mars, that’s not weird, I’m in love with your dad, childhood fascination?, 600 year old, time works strangely on Mars, always looking thirty, never explained, put a lot of stuff into this first book, telepathy, that one time, immortal, it did the opposite, the most boring part of the book to read, interesting, so deep into the book, five miles away, a full mile, as close packed, very orderly, neither scoffs nor plaudits, tried by an impartial body of nobles, footnote 1, 840am earth time, whenever Captain Carter…, many martian tables, this vast fund, it will add nothing of interest, adhere to the original manuscript, the martian day is a trifle over, ten equal parts, revolutionary French, Jacobins, commencing the day at 6am Earth time, 200 brief periods of time, seconds?, yep, fifty zats one zoad, fifty zats in a zoad, 200 tals in a zat, a key to understanding how he wrote this, suddenly realized, the only footnote in the whole book, this is not Tolkien, writing as fast as he can, oh hang on, what did I do, he’s on a typewriter!, when you can just do it this way, that’s a lot of work, Will’s Foundation readthrough essay, Paul Krugman, something about being evil, portrays a profound disrespect for people, wanted to be a psychohistorian, when Asimov was writing that story, one day a New York Times columnists is going to be inspired by my writing, in the context of Will’s essay, it’s liches, liches are evil because they try to control the living even they’re dead, 10 jews per semester and no blacks of you want my money, find a workaround, the stupid codicils in the will, strange and ridiculous, I can write better rot than that, more coherent, would we have been way better off?, we wouldn’t get a lot of the text, how many books did Tolkien published, two novels, not meant for publication, a lot less stuff, meant to be ephemeral, wipe your butt with the pages, goes in the digested, before writing, Under The Moons Of Mars, letterhead for a failed business, Heinlein’s story too, so many of these old authors, spent 2 years in the merchant marines, invented a new kind of helicopter, wrote these 12 crime novels, don’t tell the truth, somebody’s, dress it up in frilly clothes, plant men at their email jobs, laptop class plant men, unconsciously, how he would like to interact with reality, wants to have a good friend, a son (but wouldn’t like to raise them), come on to him, oblivious to it, I will have all your eggs, I’m married to a literal princess, weird food for the black pirates, Sola and his relationship, these creatures from Mars, in various forms of dress and undress, thought it was hot, 4 boobs, thark muscle mommy, orc muscle mommy, let them be, she was teaching him, low position, all coincidences, special, coincidentally special, killing plant men for the first ten minutes and white apes, white ape action, too long, too much, the manipulation of the stuff, surgery in the next book?, growin guys in vats, yellow martians, trying to find Dejah Thoris, had an egg somewhere, why she named him, I didn’t know you were pregnant, stand and watch the egg together, watch it grow, probably done with this series, a lot of filler, have to be in the dungeon for a year, another year, very manipulative, on a sentence and scene level, the airship battle at the end, that got Will, visualizing it, in the 1970s for playing rpgs, matter replicator, play with miniatures, big airship battle, actual tactics, maneuver like this, an anchor, Sola fell off, a nice soft mountain, because coincidence, very hardy 12 feet tall, boobs and ass, the Burroughs bibliophiles, an important science fiction writer, space opera after him, planetary romance, in the atmosphere, five hard science fiction books you have to read, The Calculating Stars by Mary Robinette Kowal, rockets, handwavium, a rocket program, Rocket Ship Galileo, if this goes on jum jum jum […], here’s a set of ideas, let’s play, Howard writing a Kull story, just is happening, the part of the brain that’s stimulated, sense of wonder, so many stars, the end of the Clarke story, The Nine Billion Names Of God, if these monks are right, an Isaac Asimov story, the same idea, if you could calculate, good writing, character stuff, way too long, worldbuilding, people disagree, fantasy story with science fiction tropes, telepathy was a science fiction trope, discovering things, turns out no, very popular bad idea, Alfred Bester, this is not doing that, kill people with my sword, let’s go, fun vibe, keeps you reading, changing Mars to be more compatible with Edgar Rice Burroughs morality, likes his titles, The Cave Girl, duchess, what if we flip this around, a martian comes to Earth, a thark or redman or white ape comes to earth, meets a waitress, side of a highway in Iowa, insists that she’s a princess, maybe she has a kid, you de-princessize her, a low woman who needs to pay the bills, lives in a trailer, the morality of mars to earth, traditional thark thoughts, one of many woman, go plant your egg in that field over there, falling apart instantly, what if we switch genders, switch classes, what we see in relief, Heinlein’s novel, Stranger In A Strange Land, Superman, the best culture: Kansas culture, weirdness magnet, hidden hand controlling his destiny, blue kryptonite, a kabbalistic connection to the letters LL, not a comedy, cute, cosy, action packed, noble, this story, the culture is even more alien, playful, more Mary Suey, making it so the reader can, I’m not John Carter, reuniting with my family, being locked in dungeons for years, supersane, chained to the wall, his muscles are fine, isometric exercises, no food, have to eat each other, Issus, so fluffy and frothy, barely in the book, in more scenes than many, clearly his story, the protagonist, unneeded, the mythology was really good, does he go on to impose or prop up, the books get weirder and weirder, Thurn high priest, the temple of the Sun, not a finished book, ridiculous cliffhanger, son has adventures, Thuvia Maid Of Mars, their daughter has a book, mad scientists, a fighting man of mars, weird adventuer, spider heads, he’s fun, create a new America, I’m a great guy, emancipating the slaves, an old Virginian, Burroughs or John Carter, he wants to be a noble of some kind, read the hold canon, the impression, not unusually racist, he’s nice to his slaves, no black men in the first book, the next book, they’re all bald, wear the wig with the crown, used to be blonde, they dress up for each other, oh my god, so cool, with regard to the slaves, gladiatorial stuff, people who speak for them, so bored she didn’t even open her eyes, didn’t have to bother looking, half way through the book?, slave uprising in the arena, this is actual science fiction right here, teaching students how to use chat gpt properly, given assignments that are ridiculous, whatever it writes, this is too much, reform it and refine it, can you do my homework for me, the blacks don’t produce anything, really interesting, she wasn’t even watching the combat, there are some even who have slaves who talk to them, transpiring within the arena, the firstborn do no work, the men fight, the women do nothing, absolutely nothing, with closed eyes, not tech, replace the word slave with robot, magically science fiction, robots wash them, robots feed them, with closed eyes, we see this with kings, learn to read, there are slaves for that, you have to read the actual message from your kid, to see that signature, trust with your own eyes, think about this a lot, a little dose of mainstream media, pre-digest your thoughts, she’s the biggest person on substack, Barry Weiss on Joe Rogan, he is an “Assad toady”, she didn’t know what the word meant, what predigested news does for you, wash your own laundry, when I want your opinion I’ll give it to you, fix my car, takes a lot of training, if you haven’t done it, all these topics, some jobs require some skills to be learned, essay writing, good jobs, fucked if I know, work in tech, written a lot, wrote a ton of essays, a real skill that helps you in a lot of places, put your thought coherently together, the tricks to get the results that they want, do you want this to be interesting and good for you, or good for your teacher, more flourishing, the short term, you need five paragraphs and this number of words, students don’t even know what the word essay means, A Modest Proposal, pushing away the joke, doubles down and doubles down, I propose we start eating the babies, coherent sentences, hitting word counts, way more to say or way less to say, how to say five different ways to say “in addition”, checkpoints they have to go through, how Will ended up writing essays, learned to like it, writing is fun, writing ideas, worked with Will a lot, how to communicate clearly, you’re lucky, a coherent person, columnist for the New York Times, any kinda good, communicate clearly in writing, building fences and fixing cars, more shop class, languages, a lot of that is weird liability stuff, bandsaw, can’t let them do it, fear is hugely driving things in society, more bad writing as chat gpt takes over, unfeasible to fund it, complete in five years, those jobs to make that shit, what a robot thinks about something, what’s the capital of Katmandu?, some of the questions make no sense, are those popular questions that were asked, they do nothing, no moral agenda behind it, so strange, how rich and decadent they are, if Robert E. Howard were writing this, The Slithering Shadow, decadent city state, ivs of opium all day, wtf you guys doin?, I’m busy fighting this slither shadow, that’s just how it is, I got my opium, much more of the science fiction writer, set on another planet, strong ideas he’s trying to work through, almost essay style arguments, when we eventually get to Rogues In The House, Murders In The Rue Morgue?, C. August Dupin, The God In The Bowl, Burroughs is deep too, levels to it, he hasn’t teased them out, he’s just shooting them, this is Robert E. Howard doing a gothic and having Conan hating every minute of it, a hobby horse against gothic fiction, frustrated the whole time, even Frost Giant’s Daughter, the siren, the tease, steaming on a platter, fuck that, I’m Conan, you can’t escape me, almost a rape story, why can’t we read this in school, a long list of things they want to put in your brain and this is not it, Burroughs taught in school, maybe shop class, fence making class, chicken breeding, anti-classical education, an elective on posting, a classical education in high school, doing it on our this podcast, The Symposium, three years of classical philosophy, very powerful, participate in a lot of weird conversations, make cocktails, vintage art guy, extracted what little juice was in this dry planet, at some point, all the insane coincidence, there’s the exact thing I needed, half-way across the solar system, exact same prison cell as my son, so brazen about it you can’t get man, the most deus thing that ever got machinaed, one big coincidence, two people survived, this is bad writing, my god how amazing is this, every piece fits together, The Terminator, more fun, not as good as a film, the more you elaborate on it, every piece fits, why is this happening, that word was created by him hearing it from himself, that’s just how it is, no clothes, no clothes, handwavium, I don’t understand tech stuff, every part of that story fits, an embellisment, the exact same beats, how the pacing is identical scene for scene, one is here to protect, I’ll be back, not a horror movie and not a b-movie, a car chase, a truck chase, crushed in the crushing factor, melted in a melting factory, 2200 word story, something not set in our conventional world, he’s not crafting a story, trying to tell you a fun story, going on adventures, so many other modes, mystery series, the mystery, Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys, sandwich making and a lot of clues, The Hound Of The Baskervilles is a terrific terrific novel, a Nancy Drew style story, yard sales, 10 cents a book, art inside, cool covers, boys solving mysteries, one boy, the Encyclopedia Brown books, a knock off for even younger kids, who stole the bike, I’ve solved the mystery, got some trivia wrong, civil war saber, General Robert E. Lee, first Battle of Bull Run, The Battle Of First Manassas, Futurama, Wikipedia Brown, mode of mystery, H. Beam Piper novel Murder In The Gunroom, an Encyclopedia Brown story, the key to the mystery, weird menace show, Robert Silverberg and Test-Tube Frankenstein by Wayne Robbins, gonna be on it, so fuckin good, a Philip K. Dick horror story with Lovecraftian monsters, I have a story to tell you, rogue scientist, grinding up earthworms and making them into something, the guy he’s talking to is the earthworm, no mermaids in this story, Mistress Of The Dark Pool, find of the last five years, get the word out, very fast, listen to most of the story, so compelling, not the perfect way of doing it, slightly improved by framing device, tack on on he ending, the best excuse ever for taking a lady’s shirt off, can’t see anything they don’t get to see, replicate the outside, W. Wayne Robbins, goodness ahead, pretty much done, classic bookshelf, The Tower Treasure, later development, whole bunch of Tom Swifts for sale, The Asteroid Pirates, Victor Appleton, Victor Appleton II, The Shore Road Mystery, The Missing Chums, The House On The Cliff, LibriVox, why aren’t we bookin that guys?, four hours five minutes, one of the boys is thumbing his thumb, check out that thing, get a load of this guy, lady running down the hill away from the tower, criminals to justice, emdash, aiding their parent very materially, his loot had been secreted, The Three Investigators, Alfred Hitchcock as a character, estate locked down, 1964-1987, rewritten, complain about them, this minefield, shelf of Nancy Drews, 50s rewrite, edited them to death, a big account, people see it, the impossible to find first editions, the original, couldn’t be re-copyrighted, Franklin W. Dixon, rewritten, two Nancy Drews, every page was different, every sentence was changed, read it to your kid, people complain because it is different, changing the dates in Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?, not an author, Carolyn Keene, ghost written, improvements that way, we’ll find out, November 24th, December 1?, that predictable, make some coffee, do some editing, 1:20, too late in the day, went to bed at 9pm, just go with it, up til like 3am, sleep-in, a good little podcast, pick your brain, current SF stories, this is nice violence, making fun of AOC, HMU, hit me up, there’s that too, science fiction is short stories not novels (generally), Hominids by Robert J. Sawyer, a series, funny silly agendas, an excuse, Planet Of The Apes, neanderthal comes forward in time, falls in love, gay cavemen need to reproduce, he doesn’t know how to write humans, a lot of representation, my friend the security guard is an Indian from India, he wears a turban, they’re not like the way you project them to be, standalone books, blew me socks off, Golden Fleece, a starship, murder mystery, narrated by the computer, last few years, kinda dumb in the way many pretty smart people are, gonna live forever, Ray Kurzweil: not a smart man, not even on a cope, it’s a hope, I’m gonna live forever is not a cope it is denial, secular version of heaven, a paperback, Quintaglio Ascension trilogy, tiny dinosaurs on a moon of another planet, an analog for a scientist, Far-Seer, he’s Galileo, no humans in this book, really into dinosaurs, child-like, neanderthal fetish, when did the neanderthal touch you in a loving way?, sharing the earth with other minds, literary fiction novel, Claire Cameron, The Last Neanderthal, woman archaeologist, make the book longer garbage, just like fire, [incest], her neanderthal beliefs, big words, make your vocal chords tired, The Ugly Little Boy by Isaac Asimov, probably like Hominids, planned as a trilogy, Shaman by Kim Stanley Robinson, Iceman (1984), Encino Man (1992), put him in a dome, cave-man Truman Show, unfrozen cave man movie, a nice length, John Lone, 10,000 BC (2008), Alpha the first dog, cave boy separated from his people, read an actual book, how you gonna find it, hear it from somebody you don’t have contempt for, need to know more, paleoanthropologists are hard to meet, get no work?, set on earth, Clan Of The Cave Bear (1986), wistful longing, Shogun, hand can’t span the spine, very doable, the original Pierre Boulle Planet Of The Apes, an inversion of what you see in the movie, and short, 1963, more recent reboots, current series, 246 pages in English, an abbreviated version, Science Fiction Encyclopedia, laptop, probably burdened down by the horrible operating system, Tiny 11, MacOS, the garbage never installed, people are fixing things, we can fix it, finding out about that, how many years, you would never find it, searching for weird shit, you’ve heard of Linux, who runs Linux?, whaevah, The Aeneid, The Odyssey is one of the best books anybody can read, programmatic and propagandistic, the end with the genocide, everyone should read old books, what’s the oldest book you’ve ever read?, the early parts of the bible, contemporaneous, 8th century BC, Gilgamesh, always finding new parts, James Gunn’s From Gilgamesh To Wells, Bryan Alexander is in Mexico City doing his Mexican futurism, trying Out Of The Silent Planet again, riffing hard on Voyage Top Arcturus, he calls out wells several times, Stapledon looms over it, 1938, The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe, age of Book of Genesis, 1400 bc, Moses, a redacted literary work, 400 bc, has great parts, boring parts, read The Odyssey in high school, a tv program of it, a great character, fun adventures, every island, go to university for 20 years, stop taking history, literature and science classes, math, a weird physics class, know about physics, the physics texts written by the physics dudes, readable, post-Einsteinian physics, what does physics need to know about me?, material science, how can we solve this problem, some it is just cost, hard to dig up and process, aluminum used to be the most expensive metal, more valuable than gold, now as cheap as dirt made from dirt, titanium, the price of titanium, mixing metals together, lots of great physics stuff to learn, doesn’t really matter what class it is as long as the teacher is good, the quality of the physics teachers in Michio Kaku, the science popularizes, worse than dumb rocks, not caring about facts, string theory is bullshit, nobody would say that for 30 fucking years, buzzword, there are things we don’t know why things happen, come up with a theory, come up with a hypothesis, if that’s true then…, is gravity a particle, gravitons, if we can detect a graviton, a particle and not a wave, we don’t know the answers, everything else is happening in other dimensions, the don’t fuckin test it, a collider the size of the solar system, nobody calls em on it, subscribing to Scientific American and Popular Science, some of this is scams, flying cars are here, they’re not in your backyard, this other kind of flying car, four engines where the wheels would be, re-on the cover of Popular Science, never ever fuckin happened, you need electric engines like drones and lithium batteries to make a flying car a viable thing, these are fly by wire, sensors, limiters, in the fifties they had flying jeeps, Neil Armstrong, helicopter blades beneath him, put soldiers on those to fly into battle, bird strike, blade of grass anything will kill you, a cool looking mockup, most of the people in physics, mock up of flying cars, keep paying me, that’s something else, a religious scam, the guy at the front: you’re all going to heaven you don’t need to read the paperwork, string theory, it’s coming along, a scam, in production right now, they’re basically drones, but you sit in the drone, there’s no market for them, fly in the sky over your suburb, operating drones, traffic rules for the sky, how crotchety and elderly the system of laws is, probably be Africa, where they’re interested in getting shit done and not feathering their own nests, more like golf carts, more like RVs or ATVs, used in the countrysides for farmers, check fence-lines, flying car guy knew what the problem was, using conventional engines, light enough batteries, gasoline is super energy dense, diesel, bunker fuel, kerosene is less, you can put them all over the spars, filled with batteries, just a few more years, not noticing they’ve run the same fucking article for 25 years, find a way to test this, the quantum theory is the result of Einstein’s stuff, the many worlds hypothesis, at the fundamental nature of reality, vibrating fibers, outer space as being the absence of something, coming into creation, bubbles of particles, brief existences, Wikipedia string theory, a theoretical framework, 1 dimension objects, when we scroll down, looking for the where’s your tests, brane theory, m-theory, supergravity, matrix theory, Stephen Hawking, another failed guy, entropy formula, counting microstates, an important test of any theory of quantum gravity, doing math not physics, phenomenology, no experimental evidence, pretty damning sentence, some in the community, question the value, what heaven will be like, in my father’s house there are many mansions, how many bathrooms are in those mansions, does it come with bidets?, just give em some more money, extremely high energies need, they proliferate, mansions have more than one bathroom, that’s what they’re doing, looking at the facts then doing bullshit, not science at that point, thought experiments, the table has a glass on it, the glass has water in it, the water is wobbling, everybody is playing this game of what’s making the water move, that’s a story, where’s the evidence for it?, Mr Bad, formula on a t-shirt, e=mcsquared has damaged a lot of brains, their castles in the air are bullshit, you can do all of this, you can see how it was constructed, hidden stories behind the construction of the stories, what it was, there are facts of the matter, way easier game to play, get some cool ideas out of it sometimes, cuz they don’t have any other ideas and it is funded, somebody enjoys funding theoretical physics, interested in science, the excuse for why they can get a caveman to modern times, a hollow chamber full of heavy water, neutrino detector, the neanderthal in question is also a physicist, Illegal Alien, Royal Ontario Museum, can we prove that god exists, a paleontologist, first human to alien contact, a spiderlike alien arrives, large collection of fossils, gather evidence for the existence of god, the same five cataclysmic events, an atheist, not what you want to read right now, so what do you think?, it’s a mystery, keep it a mystery, spoil is thoughts, smart but not smart like me, not wise, smart = wisest, how do you measure wisdom, Jesse particles, emitting them, to measure personal wisdom, concerning difficult behaviors, what is the San Diego wisdom scale, high validity, make predictions very easily, renowned and acclaimed, they think it makes them sound better, a passover word, my critically acclaimed debut novel, the New York Times says, an ok person, an accident, how they used to have Theodore Sturgeon, evil NIH website, healthy aging, abstract, not complete?, the answer to this is no, mechanical turk, as we grow older, do not rush, 28 questions, I’m good at perceiving how others are feeling, I have trouble making decisions, make snap decisions, a harder one for Jesse, others look to me, go out more, don’t talk to the raccoons talk to the neighbours, a wise quality, a neutral response, always wants help, 2-seater car, can’t help her move, bad boundaries, conflict, I have trouble thinking clearly when I am upset, don’t be upset, when was the last time you were upset?, is angry upset?, a couple of years ago, there is no existence of the soul after death, why would their be?, nebulous, soul is a synonym for spirit, still exists rather than lives on, all word games, others say I give good advice, wearing the uniform, therapists shouldn’t give advice, life coach, windows or apple, probably windows unfortunately, unable to do either, try not to make decisions, I remain calm under pressure, I have trouble thinking when I am upset, don’t be under pressure, when lifting weights, I enjoy learning things about other cultures, when they have this many questions, getting at it, asking the same thing different ways, I’m closed minded, I can’t learn, I tend to postpone making major decisions as long as I can, a wisdom in not making decisions, not making decisions about things you can’t control, I’m painting the walls blue, worry is a much bigger thing than it should be, I take time to reflect on my thoughts, you write, a little notebook, a few sentences, I would stop a stranger, morality or wisdom, an American dollar at the current inflation rate, my spiritual belief gives me inner strength, duty and how people should act, a spiritual thing, neutral on it, just havin fun here, I’m ok with people having morals and values other than my own, you’re a mammal, like your young, take more information on non-mammalian morality, lost it for about six weeks, spent more money, can’t even make the joke, I avoid self-reflection, about mirrors?, I would rather someone else make the decision, for me I am uncertain, a mistaken trait, waitress, what do you like, what was popular, people are different, such a strange question to ask a waitress, interesting experience, deferring to someone else on your decision making, is this a steak restaurant, I treat others the way I would like to be treated, not as an asshole, not as a piece of shit, please pass the podcasting juice, neutral, uncertain, it is important that I understand the reasons for my actions, finding out why you’re doing things, realize you’re making mistakes, the reason I’m doing this, I’ve always done it this way, a better or more efficient way, all connected on a higher level, a lower level, sniffing, they probably do, perfume, axe body sprays, horrible perfumes, can’t grok them, I generally learn something from every person I meet, drive through at the restaurant, an interaction vs. a meeting, generally learn something, the circumstances under which they’ve been pushed, condo doesn’t let them in, exposed to diverse viewpoints, meaning drift, diversity, equity, inclusion, exclusion, hierarchy, monoculture, the quality of being fair and impartial, the meme, boxes, a shortage of boxes, not a box rich society, they’re pirating the game, someone should knock down that fence, eyes to look at this game, their kid is playing in it, they’re cheating, mr umpire knock down that wall, why doesn’t the tall guy put the little guy on his shoulders, somebody had to lift, don’t handle me any more than you have to, bad back, fairness, these words are all tricks now, liberation, he’s in a hole, he could be a Morlock, post box society, I don’t analyze my own behavior, I often don’t know what to tell people, if you do your best you’re probably be all right, I can only emit so many, I cannot filter my negative emotions, not as stoic, this is an are you depressed or not, there is no overall purpose to life, a sign of depression, people of different ages, you’re in a nursing home, what pills to put you on, how depressed are you at being old, do yourself in, grandchildren not visiting you, hold the ereader up, cognitive abilities declined, let audiobooks wash over me, the last question, this test is not good, what do you do, Kentucky in your car, get a flat, cellphone is on low battery and no signal, no carjack, need to learn to change a flat, be prepared, triple A equivalent, an uncle who knew how to fix fences and change tires, spry, one or two of his brothers, the hoping that somebody comes along, hope is not a plan, foreseeing, that’s what wisdom is, a carton of water, some oil, alternator died, superclever, very proud of myself, using the tools at hand, it’s when you are great, knowing your great, not needing renowned or acclaimed, no RE no AC, how proud were you?, learning how to ride a bicycle, just gave up, can swim very well, came so naturally, proud to be walking around, do something you’ve never been able to do before, writing your first essay that doesn’t suck, doing some of your own research, good times, something you have to learn, but for what purpose, what the problem is and how we should fix the problem, reading some Foundation, getting at what’s wrong with it, putting it out there, for your own benefit, shared interests, nobody is interested in Foundation (even those watching the tv show), Paul Krugman, he should have read Alfred Bester, Dune, go to the park, out there to look at things sometimes, getting the sun, vitamin d bro, sniff some pheromones, a raccoon came up to me, let it sniff me, bitten, what did it do, being bitten, startled, animals don’t bite just to taste, special kinda crazy, fear response, trying to be considered by it, be more leery, the whole rabies process, animals with rabies, the episode of Doctor Quinn, she’s a medicine woman, the best of western medicine, it’s all danger of the week, fear/danger, reality more twisted and weird than it is dangerous and fear, actual fucking vs. theoretical fucking, your pension, defund your housing, you need to know about it, Netflix and streaming services, cost money and doesn’t give me anything, that consumer culture horror, digitial subscriptions to three magazines, Seize The Press, anti-capitalist, they don’t have a press, a red triangle around it, you love tech, old tech and good tech that works, not a fetishist, a smartwatch, wearing shit, what do you need that for?, being productive, bad heart, low oxygen, commanded to get your steps in, conspicuous consumption, apple watches, bombs to bomb people, screen protector and case, two finicky about finding the right one, one of those questions, making decisions is really bad, when their is so many options, act by not acting, alpha haven’t happened, make up a set of principles, change your principles later, don’t turn down money, wasn’t a decision, just a policy, makes your life way better to cut things out, what criteria to abide by, made in Israel, I’m not going to buy that, who’s better, Android or Apple, an LG phone, good features, all the things that make a modern phone, stuck into the ecosystem, expandable memory, the way you don’t get screwed by the phone company, their cloud, forget about the privacy implications, keeps you in the ecosystem, it’s free just press this button, you have to fight against them, it is slightly better, Apple is very very closed, texting somebody in blue (vs. green), a way to suck you in and keep you broken, who you gonna believe me or your own research, he can’t get his banking app to work on his phone, look into sideloading, theoretically can be done, how robust is it?, the official app store, they don’t want you to see Alex Jones, find a way, Android is very capable of being sideloaded, windows traditionally that was the only way, if you get trained properly, play a game on a website, don’t let them trap you, fuck with your food, fuck with your phone, fuck with your life, frozen with fear and regret, very afraid of regret, did something really mean, legal career, doing your best at the time, can’t justify it, let it roll through me, paralyzed by regret, inform our future actions, massive decline at some point, still producing Jesse particles, back among the children, 4 days a week, doesn’t suck, there’s lots of patterns to it, never even think about writing it down, scheduling apps, too chaotic for voicemail, spam calls, text message is better, some more particles next time.

The Gods Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #745 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Moon Maid by Edgar Rice Burroughs


The SFFaudio Podcast #745 – The Moon Maid by Edgar Rice Burroughs – read by Thomas A. Copeland for LibriVox. This is a complete and unabridged reading of the novel (6 hour 17 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants include Jesse, Paul Weimer, Maissa Bessada, and Alex

Talked about on today’s show:
Argosy, May 5, 1923, 1926 hardback, two sequels, Paul feels seen, The Moon Men was drafted first, this prequel instead, a setup for a part 2, a communist takeover of the world, Moon Men taking over the world, communist moon men, the Martians aren’t communists, a tie in, hard to get the original magazines, the ad for The Moon Maid, from late April, remarkable imaginative powers, his latest and most fascinating, desolate barren, forbidding, stellar waste, a vivid gripping story, Thursday May 3, 1923, writing to an audience who already knows about John Carter, the John Carter movie, name drop, already in his universe, a different mindset, a different appreciation, not the best place to start with ERB, expecting something they’d already read, standard Burroughs planetary romance, a twist, this isn’t what I signed up for, this cool premise, finally at peace, no such thing as time, 200 years from now, and all my other lives, maybe I’ll tell you later, when we’re both cats, the prologue, not the best Edgar Rice Burroughs books, Tarzan Of The Apes, At The Earth’s Core, Carson of Venus [Pirates Of Venus], Barney Custer, The Mad King, the poorest one in terms of excitement and action, still okay, don’t be sorry, a bit of a disappointment, the dynamic of a hero character who’s always forgiving his enemy who’s always betraying him, this Burroughs character is very dim, we all know she loves him, strange looks, covers, six limbed centaurs, they’re quadrupeds, Gutenberg Australia, four limbs, Frazetta, J. Allen St. John did it, a girl with wings, they have no tails, Frazetta never read any of the books he did covers for, tails, my god sir, something about it that looked human, long limbed bears with human faces, Edgar Rice Burroughs Fan Twitter, vagas, very wide, very different with centaurs, they are much more like bears or dogs, they are definitely not centaurs, half man half horse, more alien, how do they put their clothes on?, if centaurs wear clothes…, little kids riding, the diminutive, goat like, riding on the backs of their moms, so many interesting threads and ideas, science fiction, but he doesn’t care about science, made of radium, science marches on, radium cream, radium enema, glows on the inside, the whole interior thing, recycling, an old tweet, Burroguhs is teaching us not to think, a religious state, H.G. Wells, the two poles of modern fantasy defined, what’s out there, man?, dry and desiccated, just beneath the surface!, The First Men In The Moon by H.G. Wells is a terrific book, rays, a mad professor and a journalist, very Flash Gordon, inimitable Wells style, light and silly, Cavorite, a rock or a metal when unshielded turns up gravity, anti-gravity, suck your way to the moon, push or pull your way to that object, hollow Moon, insects, tremendous strength, a reverse invasion of the Earth, the British Empire, taking their guns out onto the moon, finally at peace, murder as many as he could, Pax Anglo Saxonia, I need more weapons, they point their weapon at an animal, going hunting big game, I’m a master fencer because of course I am, hunt things, conquer and subdue, The Invisible Man is interesting and powerful and well done (but not very fun), a horror movie, Kevin Bacon in The Hollow Man, not a friendly story, pathetic in the end, I have ghost powers, I’m cold and my feet hurt, The Ring Of Gyges from Plato, a pseduoscientific explanation, [The Island Of] Doctor Moreau is morose, The Time Machine is super-interesting, Wells is hard, he always writes assholes, about as light and fluffy as it gets, enslaved by the insect men, gold chains, head explodes in a puff of powder, I can do that too, it’s a romance, he finds an ant lady on the Moon and falls in love, a moth lady, the wings are fake, they don’t have a model of feathers, bats or butterflies or winged toads, the most beautiful toad princess on the satellite, Friend Island by Francis Stevens, same setup, exact same period, All-Story Weekly, able-sailoresses of the poorer type, the lady aviator’s union, a survivor of the age of turbines, a true seawoman, women’s superiority to man, enginewomen and stokers, blue knickers and boleros, women are in charge, that’s why there’s world peace!, an island that was aleive and hated men, a peace ship, the exact same premise, the promise of the League Of Nations, jaw jaw instead of war war, only women can do it, it will only take 50 years of continuous war, he foresaw a lot more war, is he right?, we think of WWII (only 4 years), or China, the Spanish Civil War, Hearts Of Iron, a Paradox game, launched into another conflict, does the Cold War count?, 1967 we’re done, technically that’s what it is, a textbook written 300 years from now, the 100 years war, every summer, sniping at each other, the campaign, a whole different thing, its all one thing, what will the 20th century to a historian in 2192?, starting to fix the terms, time doesn’t have any meaning, the war against Napoleon is a world war, World War Zero, why is WWI called WWI?, the Great War, another Franco Prussian War, entangling alliances, WWIII now, the world wasn’t in the kind of communication that it was, there’s no radio, theater of operations, S.M. Stirling’s Island In The Sea Of Time novels, leftover old technology, we’ve invented a world war, sufficient fighting in the Napoleonic Wars, trans-Atlantic, nothing in the Pacific, Japan and Russia, WWI in the Pacific, tired of continuous war, this other aspect, this one guy is able somehow to see his other lives, he always reincarnates as his own grandson, the planetary species barrier, hinted at, exact verbiage, he’s going to know her, a lunatic, that girl lived them with me, Time capital T, another adventure?, how he is remembering all of this, after we eat you and take your flesh away, their child can remember all his lives backwards and forwards, a funny way to get into this adventure, A Princess Of Mars, he just walks out of a magic cave and says take me, he astrally projects himself there, handwaved, naked, plot happens, he meets some six limbed creatures, taught by a female, a Mars maid, exact same plot, making friends with the six-limbed monsters, a terrific book, Tarzan is fine, tempted to read the Barsoom books, way more romantic, much more exciting, its the future, another future, I lived again in the future, in a shipped called Barsoom, tie-in branding, a shared universe, just change my name, 12 years long service, the wounded badge, he’s an admiral, set in 1967, how does this even make any sense, a received document, a reporter in the future, writing them back in time, the outer narrator is Edgar Rice Burroughs’ grandson, very nested and internal and silly, and the best part, reincarnated on the Moon and the Earth, marrying a Moon man, there is no originated, we’re all existing at the same, can’t transgender, all these evidences, Paul’s headcanon, the evidence in the book, a sample size of two (aka 100 percent), Babylon 5, a space opera universe, J. Michael Straczynski, Valen goes back in time and does something with Minbari souls, read a lot of stuff, I can do this better, John Sheridan, Gandalf the White, the King Arthur, the pit of Zahadum, he’s reborn as Gandalf the White, very Tolkien, wars of good against evil, Alfred Bester, an alien race named after Neil Gaiman (the Gaim), Harlan Ellison, Penn and Teller, there’s some bad stuff in Babylon 5, actively nosediving, back to the Moon, pants means crap, 100 miles an hour trip, he does not understand what it means to travel through space, 15 years of food, even with a Hohmann Transfer Orbit, a very narrow view of how many people are on a planet, Event Horizon (1997), everyone else is dead, his poor wife, a 17 year old boy and two lieutenants, not talking to human resources about personality problems, bringing Moon People to earth, the captain knew, 40 percent of the crew hate each other, I’m gonna kill us all, bad Burroughs, throwing stuff out, he wants to get somewhere else, standard Burroughs ideas, the sequel, that’s the problem with it, trying to set the stage, it shows, Burroughs is always exciting, mutiny on the Moon, get the story moving, meeting new peoples, it goes smooth, his best book?, all the people at the CIA who hate communists, anti-communist book, finding communism on the moon, I am not a slave, I am a prisoner, I have never seen your like before, a little criticism of his critics, I am from Laith, why all this Enmity, who are the Kalkars anyway, the word meaning the thinkers, a long time ago we were all non-communists, the Vagas we bred for flesh, electricly driven trains, ships of the land, The Land Ironclads, visualized, each ruled by it jem’hadar, Deep Space Nine, the children of the poor, there it was our troubles first started, no learning is better than a little, a small coterie, a secret society called the thinkers, those who thought that they thought, more talking than thinking, those goddamn commies, the poor people come from a lower class, so weak, with all of his underlining, we’re gonna do land reform, educate ourselves, end WWI, then the cows rose up and ate them, they’re carnivorous cows, Jesse likes cannibalism, he became fine with it, when he kisses her he’s like mmm tastes like my friend, Robert A. Heinlein, popular in the period, Typee by Herman Melville, Stranger In A Strange Land, the Jesus story, The Number Of The Beast, in the Martians in general, you don’t get Heinlein without Burroughs, cannibalism on Barsoom, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, tiresome, Farnham’s Freehold, assume there’s cannibalism, disquieting, enlightened, idyllic, H.P. Lovecraft’s The Mound, a utopia with a lot of slavery, a Spanish conquistador discovers an underground civilization, fuckin liars, an iterative improvement, raises the game so much, Paul’s not gonna neg people, CIA trolls, a weak way to go, Richard A. Lupoff, the best non-series, P. Schuyler Miller, from Analog 1970, near Mad King level, Tarzan novels, The Monster Men, Beyond Thirty, The Land That Time Forgot, At The Earth’s Core, maybe The Cave Girl is no good, defrosted neanderthal, we’re gonna frost him later, The Mucker, a deliberate throwback, nutty nuggets, alive into WWII, his legacy is gonna be not so Tarzany, an uncountable number of Tarzan books, that company, producing official books, a little symbol on the cover indicated “this is canon”, if Burroughs wrote it is it really canon?, didn’t care about that, he wasn’t a Star Wars fan, the Wookipedia, we’re the farm corporation we make food, certified food, this label you can trust, there’s no new canon, unless you dig up an old book, like we get with For Us The Living, Dune, the old dead Dune guy, Frank, high end fanfiction, the John Gregory Betancourt, a small world after all, there’s not that many people reading these old books, a John Carter tv show?, they can’t own the IP in the same way, Disney is a legal machine, they just buy IP, a Brandon Sanderson series, we had Xena, John Woo’s The Iliad, Troy (2004) with Brad Pitt, Alexander (2004) was pretty weak, Kingdom Of Heaven (2005), we’re fighting at dawn, balloons and blunderbusses, random blacksmith, the least interesting character, Ridley Scott’s The Moon Maid, Tony Scott died, all 72 Avatar movies, James Cameron, not wasting his time, Burroughs wasted his time with his Tarzan, he succeeded, make art, lot of reasons people to hate H.P. Lovecraft but crass commercialism isn’t one of them, Robert E. Howard, despite being actively commercial… he manages to be amazing, given his circumstances, you have my blessing, a trap of getting too excited about the cash, James Cameron is eating well, a billion dollars a pop, its his baby, he said I’m done, he should be, just a setup for the next one, more churn, not everything is equal, opeople can be wrong, Napoleon for Apple TV, Joaquin Phoenix playing Napoleon, three 35mm cameras side by side, a cast of millions, silent films get no respect, House Of Gucci (2021), All The Money In The World (2017), Alien: Covenant (2017), The Martian (2015), Exodus: Gods And Kings, The Councillor, Prometheus, the auto-doc, Robin Hood with Russel Crowe, A Good Year, Matchstick Men, Hannibal (2001), Gladiator (2000), G.I. Jane (1997), White Squall (1996), out of Blockbuster, 1492: Conquest Of Paradise (1992), Black Rain (1989), a some guy goes to Japan finds it an alien planet movie, Wesley Snipes and Sean Connery in Rising Sun (1993), Michael Crichton, Someone To Watch Over Me (1987), Tom Berenger and Mimi Rogers, Legend (1985), Blade Runner (1982), Alien, The Duelists (1977), I like those actors, across the border with very long swords, communism wins!, some Moon Maid cartoon, weird anime shit, escaflowne?, asagai?, portal fantasy is big in anime, whole subgenres of anime, professionally into weird shit, manga, Starblazers, Robotech, read it backwards, generational?, we’re too old, we’d have to learn a lot to get it, give me your best anime movies, Akira (1988) has style but the story is shit, give me your best classic, Royal Space Force: Wings Of Honneamise (1987), Wings of Mayonnaise is more like it, what’s your favourite American movie?, two kids fall in love playing Street Fighter, high score girl, the board games anime subgenre, the voice of Sailor Moon, Princess Mononoke (1997), celebrating peace day, what are we gonna do with ourselves?, net twenty years, correspondence with Mars, down with Mars medicine, we loves the Mars manga even if we have to read it upside down, everyone is naked, can you have a cultural experience via wireless telegraphy with another planet?, wait 500 years before Shogun comes out, they wear weird clothes and have no furniture but are otherwise just like us, whippersnappers get off my lawn, I got a deadline here, rushing through his old tropes, it doesn’t hang as a whole, “yeah, so I’m basically a Highlander, and I wind up on Mars, let’s go”, what’s with the problems with astral projection? that’s part of being a Highlander, a good excuse, a framing device, the most fun parts, Edgar Allan Poe’s The Oval Portrait is mostly framing device, this newspaper report is in the future, Maissa was all in, always a bit weak with ecosystem, a playground, all the rocks glow, the water, he half-asses worlds into existence, peril from the falls, the strength of the Earth men, not stunningly stronger, jump out of a crater, bottomless pit, circumstantial evidence, The Menace From Earth is about a moon maid, a striking image, a lot more flapping or soaring in dreams, bird ancestors, flying toad ancestors, Paul has tetropod ancestors, ped pod, actual centaurs, following the book, committed at least to that, centaurs are cool, that’s why we want to see the ancient mythology visualized, Rocket Robin Hood and The Mighty Hercules, Prince Caspian has cool battle scenes, epic battle scenes, tonally dissonant, the centaurs looked good, a Christian television network, The Golden Compass, anti-theist, and this is why there’s no god, very Ayn Rand, a Tolkien fest, a director who hated fantasy and a screenwriter who never read the book, a British Christmas special, a solid miniseries, this 1/6th gravity book, prejudiced against manly barbarians, might be a girl thing, Space Viking by H. Beam Piper, Jim Kitchen, Chronicles Of Amber, the ghost of Roger Zelanzy, The Venom Business, Rocket Ship Galileo, moon-Nazis, with the help of an old man, New Mexico or Arizona, 1948, Iron Sky (2012), The Adventures Of Brad Pitt’s Ex-Wife, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (2004), diesel-punk, totenkopf, take care, Unseen-Unfeared by Francis Stevens, The Heads Of Cerberus, my turn will come, The Hopkins Manuscript by R.C. Sherriff, trying to make this book a thing, the Moon collides with the Earth, a historical document, poultry breeding, eaten by an owl, not a suspect, slept through the murder, the British Lunar Society, the truth can no longer be denied, villagers dig trenches and play cricket before the end of days, The Last Policemen by Ben H. Winters, a tv series out of the UK, a movie, a recent science fiction movie, Moonfall (2022), Puss In Boots: The Last Wish (2022), genuine humans, box office is down 50%, turn the machine off, we couldna foreseen that, the verdict was I’m tired, a setup for the next one, looking good never looked so good, in 3D, make good movies, make the theatrical experience cheap, if there were movies that were good, put some old movies in the theater for a change, the suburbs, a very old theater with really bad seats, a pain in the ass, El Mariachi (1992) and Bad Lieutenant (1992), Treasure Island, Shakespeare’s Planet, something Paul will hate, a Jordan Peterson movie, Camille Paglia, I agreed with your about everything, she’s nodding her head the whole time, Evan’s really mad, they need to read more Marx, I need to read any Marx, his economics is worse than Burroughs’ science, this is what capitalism is doing to people, the way money works, The Communist Manifesto, where to start with Karl Marx, you’re racist you should read more Marx!, you’re no help at all, ask Will, Will shoulda been on this one, he’s not on twitter much, a serious cat wrangling problem, overtaken by felines, most people want to play computer games and escape reality, life sucks I have to work, cats that need to be neutered, the latest one, $600,000 year rent to his dad’s house, that’s the 10% for the big guy, nothing will come of it, its only corrupt when Trump does it, we’re living in the corrupt times, it will go on for centuries, corruption was called business, just have to get used to it or go herd cats, Jesse’s mom has a bull now, one cow two heifer’s and a bull, a cow in heat every three weeks (or months), a long brooding cycle, to make more delicious cows, is there a cow in the field outside?, I bought a cow, there’s not stopping these women, magic beans, an adventure that never happened to Alex, steals from the giant, the golden goose, they were the disinherited, getting his goose back, you have to accept being a peasant, no, I’m going to reach for the sky, folktale vs. fairytale, what Hans Christian Anderson does, Cinderella vs. Puss In Boots, Charles Perrault, how many pages deep?, this part was fun, knocked it out in a day, it had good bits, some of them are not great, some of the knockoffs by other authors, The First Men In The Moon, The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Fu-Manchu, Alan Moore steals everything, he’s better than a lot, a weird Alan Moore take, before he quit comics finally, Garth Ennis’ Crossed, zombie sperm or saliva, anti-Christian sort of thing, like any zombie plague, eating people and walking funny, takes away all your goodness, any pain you inflict makes you orgasm, that’s really bad, the premise is strong, a shitload of money, 100 years in the future, human society has been injured by this terrible plague, stronger than most zombie films, oh that’s terrible, when the mother wants to have sex with her own son, all the mean things, that’s Garth Ennis being a monster, mutated, killed off in their excstasies, the main character is a scholar, reading her journal, he’s invented a new language, word substitution all over the place, A Clockwork Orange, milkbars and rape scenes, a high level comic, a science fiction survey, very Alan Moorey, V For Vendetta, the novelization is better than the movie or the comic, some audacious stuff, Providence by Alan Moore and Jacen Burrows, you can be a flawed person like Jordan Peterson and still have something valuable to say, sorry about that mini-lecture there, Crossed Plus 100, don’t go on the internet and type in Crossed and Garth Ennis, sorry, horror comic, if you can survive that there’s nothing else that can hurt you, stronger shuddering in a corner, enjoy your Roof Bear calendar.

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The SFFaudio Podcast #654 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: Star Ship by Poul Anderson

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #654 – Star Ship by Poul Anderson; read by Paul Harvey (for LibriVox). This is an unabridged reading of the story (1 hour 32 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Paul Weimer, and Scott Danielson.

Talked about on today’s show:
Planet Stories, Fall 1950, the description therein, The strangest space castaways of all!, weirdly medieval, the life-boat cracked up, an AI that rebelled against them, this episode of Star Trek Voyager, all simulation, Paul unleashed, “The Paradise Syndrome”, not good depictions of Native Americans, C.J. Cherryh’s the Foreigner series, 12 novels vs. 90 minutes, padded vs. lean and mean, the backstory is all in here, a two part Voyager episode, Star Trek The Next Generation, an episode of The Orville, time works differently down there, Interstellar (2014), “Blink Of An Eye”, Dragon’s Egg by Robert L. Forward, “Mad Idolatry”, Sandkings by George R.R. Martin, Ted Sturgeon’s Microcosmic God, accelerated rate vs. accelerated time, all they needed was a remote control, Aliens (1986), the orbiting Sulaco, their away mission included the entire crew, Apollo 11, you gotta leave Michael Collins up there, subspace vortex, your people with your equipment, one in a billion chance, one ion storm, wrong timeline?, what Heinlein did, Poul Anderson’s complete psychotechnic league, the third story, Flandry, egalitarian, looser, Sandra Miesel, Startling Stories, Winter 1955, back in the early 1940s Robert A. Heinlein let it be known, The Snows Of Ganymede, a bare outline, fantasy and prophecy, the first 250 years, 2875, The Star Ways, some of them are as yet unwritten, Cold Victory wasn’t published until the 1980s, Oswald Spengler, The Decline of the West, Arnold J. Toynbee, anthropoid robot invented, anti-robot riots, a historical view, a me discovering this, psychodynamics was created, the early death of Dwight D. Eisenhower. U.S. Socialism in the 1950s, like Asimov’s psychohistory, influence government policy and popular attitudes, his own Foundation, uncomfortable questions, realism vs. idealism, Anderson’s political beliefs, he reversed his strong support for the United Nations, more cynical, cycles of history, libertarian?, internationalist, individualist, any other stories, a reversal of The High Crusade, capes, cannons, siege engines, medieval futuristic, Jack Vance, only three generations, a mix of elements, The Dragon Masters, worldbuilding happened outside of the plot, like reading Heinlein, he has a plan, Friday is set in the same universe as Farmer In The Sky, part of a greater universe, reading his openings more than once, nobody with amnesia,

With sunset, there was rain. When Dougald Anson brought his boat in to Krakenau harbor, there was only a vast wet darkness around him.

the aliens when we get to them, fur with clothes, he swished his tail, my gosh look at that alien!,

The Khazaki was humanoid, to be sure—shorter than the Terrestrial average, but slim and lithe. Soft golden fur covered his sinewy body, and a slender tail switched restlessly against his legs. His head was the least human part of him, with its sloping forehead, narrow chin, and blunt-muzzled face. The long whiskers around his mouth and above the amber cat-eyes twitched continuously, sensitive to minute shifts in air currents and temperature. Along the top of his skull, the fur grew up in a cockatoo plume that swept back down his neck, a secondary sexual characteristic that females lacked.

the original art, it just looks like a mohawk, this picture is from right near the end of the story, funny things going on in the background, a little post-medieval, the Khazaki – Kozakis – Cossacks, in the analogue that is Poul Anderson’s brain, Japanese, Scandanavian guy, lucky, plot magic, a lot of females, Ching Chun Chen aka Ensign Kim, taught astrogation from her grandfather, our Conan figure, prematurely old looking, a forehead scar, had many women attracted to him (including the native women), L. Sprague de Camp, rishathra, cultural vs. wenching,

He looked away, his face hot in the gloom, realizing suddenly why Masefield Carson hated him. Briefly, he wished he hadn’t had such consistent luck with women. But the accident that there was a preponderance of females in the second and third generations of Khazaki humans had made it more or less inevitable, and he—well, he was only human. There’d been Earthling girls; and not a few Khazaki women had been intrigued by the big Terrestrial. Yes, I was lucky, he thought bitterly. Lucky in all except the one that mattered. Right after, Anse felt a small hand laid on his arm. He looked down into the dark eyes of DuFrere Marie. She was a pretty girl, a little younger than he, and until he’d really noticed Ellen he’d been paying her some attention.

“I don’t care about equality,” she whispered. “A woman shouldn’t try to be a man. I’d want only to cook and keep house for my man, and bear his children.”

It was, Anse realized, a typical Khazaki attitude. But—he remembered with a sudden pity that Carson had been courting Marie. “This is pretty tough on you,” he muttered. “I’ll try to see that Carse is saved…. If we win,” he added wryly.

“Him? I don’t care about that Masefield. Let them hang him. But Anse—be careful—”

a very Conan guy, escape to the moon, I was promised a STAR SHIP, not a science fiction story in its main action, that’s what Planet Stories is about, the whole purpose is to get to another place, fun, planetary romance, a novelty, Planet Stories is way ahead, picking up on Science Fiction in the 1950s, maybe there’s something to this stuff, as opposed to romance or railroad or baseball fiction magazines, extrapolative science fiction, some real thing behind it, some scientific idea, the reason we like Dragon’s Egg, if we had a neutron-star, put in a ton of brain work, the speed of their metabolism, how do I tell it as a story, all that brainwork lends some sort of truth to the story, a mediocre story, still good, he has some stuff going on in his mind, the struggle we’ll see between the Soviets and the United States, the Moon is a tangible object in the sky, plot the mountains of the Moon, Mission Of Gravity by Hal Clement, the Mesklinites, we’re gonna be friends, a very masculine story, give me your sword,

He added, after a moment: “A man has to stand by his comrades.”

Janazik nodded, very slowly. “Give me your sword,” he said.

“Eh?” Anse looked at him. The blue eyes were unseeing, blind with pain, but he handed over the red weapon. Janazik slipped his own glaive into the human’s fingers.

Then he laid a hand on Anse’s shoulder and smiled at him, and then looked away.

We Khazaki don’t know love. There is comradeship, deeper than any Earthling knows. When it happens between male and female, they are mates. When it is between male and male, they are blood-brothers. And a man must stand by his comrades.

they don’t have any gays on this planet, a dozen words for betrayal but not a single word for love, teach me this earth thing you call kissing, humans have to teach sex to the aliens, in the Doctor Who universe, unusual on Earth, you have sex all the time?, what’s wrong with you?, build a rocket, there is this past, the first space-boat, a vivid past, Jerry Pournelle’s King David’s Spaceship, bootstrap a spaceship, you can’t colonize us, quasi-medieval, ran in the same circles, so many ideas, starships won’t even be necessary, Peter F. Hamilton, wormhole on Mars, Pandora’s Star, rockets that grow like trees, Beowulf Schaeffer, engineered by the Pak?, interesting tidbit, fishbowl helmet, any way to get to space, living and working in space, to go to another place, international space station, The Integral Trees and The Smoke Ring, space is the absence of a place, what if…, raiding across the galaxy, I could make this go another way, fun stuff, similar situation, somehow the humans are the dominant ones, take out our macbooks and upload a virus, Independence Day 2 (2016), hey that H.G. Wells and the War Of The Worlds thing?, I’m doing that, a computer virus, a fun movie, waiting for the Americans doing something, Independence Day: UK, when talking to Julie Davis, the Russians won WWII in Europe, Operation Market Garden, Western front vs. Eastern front, we gotta get the Chinese market, throw in a Chinese character, Dwayne Johnson, a scene set in Seoul, Skyscraper (2018), it lands badly, if you’re building the rocket ship, spoilers and scoops and pinstripes on a rocket, it doesn’t overstay its welcome, only 90 minutes, a very small story, a little planetary romance, detailed backstory that the author knows and we can surmise, a good outline, a couple of Heinlein stories, the rise of the prophet, the crazy years, with a science fiction setting, a standard Green Odyssey sort of story, Conan/action, blood brothers, pirates, a barbarian by comparison, ringmail, a blonde mane, a sword, a higher gravity planet, how it got to be as fine as it is for a very pulpy story, really obsessed with Iceland?, he makes it work, obsessed with the norther lands, an Icelandic saga, The Man Who Came Early, Poul Anderson’s answer to Lest Darkness Fall by L. Sprague de Camp, detail and place, I’m only going to tell stories set in the Black Forest, scandinavian history, Star Ways, he’s not top tier, consistently never terrible, Andre Norton, how did he manage to make a good story?, leaning on Conan, leaning on the same things, one of the reasons we know Howard writes so well, leaning heavily on history, almost never has magic as a major function, an evil wizard whose casting a spell, this tower is made of magic, fighting a literal god, leaning on the science, that is beauty, that’s poetic, NESFA, serviceable, very watered down mead, Njáls Saga, Netflix watch party, the Skiffy and Fanty people, Ragnarok, the final verdict, oh shit we gotta write a whole series, Netflix is planetary, Norsemen, funny silly stuff, leaning heavily on the facts of Norwegian life, its legit, the gutter of pulp, weak ass stories, a Conan pastiche, Tarzan, Hour 25, Sherlock Holmes, novels and collections, Delenda Est, the time patrol stories, more coming our all the time, the good news, finally hitting gutenberg, Three Hearts And Three Lions, Jeffro Johnson, The Broken Sword, Appendix N, a book of reviews, what they contributed to Dungeons & Dragons, Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax, Jack Vance’s magic system, if you’re a dungeon master, lift from these guys, Jerome Bixby, The Man From Earth (2007), Star Trek actors sitting in a room for 90 minutes, an ideas guy, Planet Stories, all Star Trek things, four episodes of the original Star Trek, ideas are incredibly important for science fiction, nice prose vs. characters, a crappily written story that’s interesting, a first contact protocol, teleportation aka transporters, Star Trek basics, Star Trek ideas in non-Star Trek stories, “By Any Other Name”, “Mirror, Mirror”, goateed Spock, “Day Of The Dove”, “Requiem For Methuselah”, “Galileo Seven”, a shuttle, “Metamorphosis”, mate with the giant guys who throw rocks, The Twilight Zone, “It’s A Good Life”, a good ideas story, his two tricks, somehow you can get a career, Lord Dunsany, Clark Ashton Smith, a staple of Jesse’s diet, a Poul Anderson, a Ray Bradbury Podcast: Bradbury 100, Science Fiction 101, more general, the Silverberg anthology (Worlds Of Wonder), an introduction to Science Fiction, old stuff, current stuff, future stuff, looking back over your life, you tripped and fell into an open grave, at night, on a Thursday, this is a good podcast, distilled it down, a novelette, Paul’s having a brain freeze because of Covid-19 and the vaccine for same, will Scott ban himself from the Baen forums, it doesn’t seem to be that big a deal, Trump should make a militia, Harold Lamb, historical fiction guy, Marching Sands, Omar Khayyam: A Life, Genghis Khan: King Of All Men, need more Rubáiyát in my life, the LibriVox version is preferable, Cirsova, Julian Hawthorne’s The Cosmic Courtship, astral projection, a professional narrator, leverage more stuff, our narrator today, like Jesse reading, the majority are pretty good, share the wealth, if pizza was still under trademark, Pizza authorized restaurant, no cheerios pizza!, let our pizzas free, champagne, parmesan, Cheddar, let people make their own pizzas, we’ve had a pizza flourishing, the ketchup on hot-dogs, its allowed, the right condiments for hotdogs, don’t lock down my hot dog, The Ship Of Ishtar by A. Merritt, Planet Stories series, Sword Of Rhiannon by Leigh Brackets, Robots Have No Tails by Leigh Brackett, Stefan Rudnicki, Johnny Heller, Nightfall And Other Stories, 40 or 50 titles, more officially public domain, 1923 was a cutoff until 2 years ago, the late 1920s pretty soon, The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald, Leonardo Dicaprio (the short guy from Titanic), push books to sell to the high schools, oh shit the copyright’s expiring, the Philip K. Dick estate, the Folio Society collection of The Complete Short Stories of Philip K. Dick, Bryan Alexander, a monstrosity, $750 for four books, Jesse’s complaints are legion, Americans tend to do that, the artistic objects, collecting old things, a half million dollar revenue project, does not include Dick’s juvenile, a handful or two handfuls not in there, lazy as fuck, the colours are fluorescent, commissioning new art, too highbrow and too generic, The Infinites, Colony, a pointless argument, people like art, these are objections for collection, like buying a sculpture, a phenomenon in art, this is a way of storing value, artificial scarcity, art as one object, not for the billionaires, above the funko pop level, The Book Of The New Sun, a new Tor version, zener card symbols are public domain, this is bad cover art, is art objective or subjective, a minimalist room, Scott doesn’t complain about art, The Doomsday Book by Connie Willis, Kivrin, $750!, Subterranean Editions, The Best Of David Brin, The Best Of Elizabeth Bear, Nancy Kress.

Star Ship by Poul Anderson

Star Ship by Poul Anderson

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The SFFaudio Podcast #629 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: Rastignac The Devil by Philip José Farmer

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #629 – Rastignac The Devil by Philip José Farmer – read by Gregg Margarite for LibriVox. This is a complete and unabridged reading of the short story (1 Hour 58 Minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants include Jesse, Will Emmons, and Trish E. Matson.

Talked about on today’s show:
Fantastic Universe, May 1954, no illustrations, a French publication, big long mustache, lion statue, a spirit coming out of the lion, all metaphorical, or a particular satire, an elaborate joke, would make a great cartoon, Fords and Renaults with feet, my Renaut is tired, interesting and imaginative, only for students of the genre, not a good entry point, unlikeable characters, exploring ideas in a jokey way, a satire of a certain thing, a little piece of history, 19th century French adventure literature, The Three Musketeers, making fun of or having fun with, the playful joking, more exploration, particular institutions, Jesse is not an expert on the French Revolution, pre-revolutionary France, the three institutions, political points, non-political points, the last three paragraphs, bad news for Trish and Will, Skin, a substitute for a conscience, Candide by Voltaire, the old evil of alcohol, they plunged into the whirlpool, the discussion philosophical, front loading the infodump, this is a novel but I can’t sell it as a novel, Christopher Paul Carey, this is in the public domain, not happy with it, enough material, more material than The Green Odyssey, a stock for a soup, The Lovers, 1952, the parent of the bug-woman, New Gaul, the Beautiful Land, why there’s so much material here, the Israeli Confederation, what makes the story work, her stuff is in Hebrew, true history that was corrupted devolved knowledge, just another interesting , The Lovers (the 58 page), A Woman A Day, Moth And Rust, World Of Tiers, Barsoom on one level, ancient Greece, Doc Savage, Tarzan, To Your Scattered Bodies Go, always exploring some sort of cool idea, how to knit it together, an interesting book, not fully grasped, The Three Musketeers, he says what he means, the skins were our consciences, the French Revolution is happening at the end of this story, I’ve got quite a gloss on that, specifically a Science Fiction story, changelings, a lot of metaphor happening, fairy tale, eating meat turns you violent, unshakeable belief, the openings, after the editorial introduction, Rastignac had no Skin., reading aloud in your inner mind, having no skin and being happy, deep underground, very very very playful, why are you telling us all this, pulling the rug out from under you every sentence, wordplay, see what the consequences of that are, the King’s Muckateers, three prison escapes is illegal, a chronic stiff neck, his philosophy of violence, an attack on the church, an embrace of the church, what happened to the Church of England, gay priests, atheist priests, we’re all on the same team, Anglican equivalents in Canada, when will the NDP be neo-liberally corrupt, just give it time, everything becomes corrupt and then there’s a revolution, the blood drinking, a metaphor, eternal life through drinking blood, Catholics, not eating meat is common in religions, not made explicit enough, Jesse doubts he’s not smart enough, watching Spaceballs and never having seen Star Wars, Blazing Saddles vs. Men In Tights, Jesse feels like Worf in Sherwood Forest, I am not a merry man, a canon of these kinds of stories, not good at limiting himself to one thing, The Other Log Of Phileas Fogg, just read it as an amusing little jaunt, planetary romance, generations later, different planet, the downed spaceman, a promise unfulfilled, with the six ships in the sky orbiting, why six?, that number is to refer to something, what’s happening in France today, why their culture is so heavily effected, how long a legacy, wash over, a dutch standup, something wrong with the text, ebook editions, Despoilers Of The Golden Empire by Randall Garrett, a spaceborn retelling of the conquest of Mexico, Star Trek, they’re obviously inferior, thus died Francisco Pizarro, there’s no such thing as spoiling it, Frank Kelly Freas, they didn’t believe in spoilers back then, we cant even tell them apart, it writes itself, a good science fiction metaphor gets behind your defenses in a way direct assaults can’t, that’s a metaphor, what is the philosophy of violence, lenient government that allows underground cells, literally laissez-faire, what’s true, free speech vs. actually killing people vs. overthrowing institutions, fish not meat, his buddy, Ssassaror, the changeling thing, residential schools, there’s no exchange, a kind of critique of religion, a Voltaire like character, revialed, exiled and revered, something very basic, daring to be a revolutionary, a free speech system, rejecting the church, rejecting the skin, its a vampire, acting like a parent, a superego, alcohol, in vino veritas, he’s got a skinful, glimpses of light, pre-revolutionary France, powerful church, distant king, nobody’s the good guy, Jesse doesn’t get it, Lusine, husband trying to abandon his native wife, he’s attracted to her because he’s repulsed by her, irredeemable, a conversation that absolved her of her sins, supporting her father, Rastignac’s approval, she’s deranged throughout the entire story, Jesse doesn’t even get the title, cognac, we don’t feel alcoholism, Edgar Allan Poe’s The Black Cat, perfectly, special attention, its actually a satire of temperance, the long legacy of temperance, teetotaling, much better understood, on the head of a keg of alcohol, not an accident, best understood through the light of his excuse, he blames it all on alcohol, a real phenomenon, who’s responsible?, AA, the higher power is attached to your body, created by the government and tended by scientists, is alcohol the devil, Balzac uses Rastignac in a number of stories, a letter that’s me talking about…, perfectly enjoyable on its own, the car chase, infodump vs. action, the jump button, an elite car, Renault because its funny, he’s just playin, people who are in cultures, eternal things, everything is cultural, mutable, a linguistic expert…,

Everybody knew the Church had been outlawed a long time ago because it opposed the use of the Skins and certain other practices that went along with it. So, no sooner had that been done than the Ssassarors, anxious to establish their check-and-balance system, had made arrangements through the Minister of Ill-Will to give the Church unofficial legal recognizance.

who are they, do they have to be anyone?, the Minister of Ill-Will, accuracy in naming?, the containment strategy, if you want to go to Oxford you have to become an Anglican, dilutes the meaning, religious whackjobiness, a more honest system, the government persecutor, Ministry of War, in our self-deluded society, the Ministry of Defense, the War Department, truth in the naming, we won’t launch any aggressive wars, unk-unks, Secretary of Defense, sec-def, just going to the meeting is the corruption, we end up where we are, a news report about all the wars, it just doesn’t happen anymore, isn’t that interesting, an interesting point he’s making, Jesse feels it but doesn’t fully grok it, Jesse wishes there was a podcast that could totally explain it, Will is still trying to grok it, LibriVox, Heel, it needs to be brought to the surface, Easter eggs, a narrative you can enjoy, a bit of fun, this should be longer vs. this should be shorter, almost none of it goes deeper, an amazing dystopian device, biology, an amazing novel, a trilogy or a series, wrong skin, half skin, linked to all the other skins, its brilliant, its your culture, how that even happened, getting that idea into the SF arena, you have to wear this parasite, that he never calls it out like a parasite, interesting effects, biological adjustment, Octavia Butler’s Bloodchild, “Rastignac was sure… something”, it is definitely something, To Your Scattered Bodies Go, amazing scenes, building up a world, he doesn’t have a good explanation, he’s a seat of his pants guy, a core reveal, a Philip K. Dick short story, an amazing thing (and then there’s nothing), everybody dies and wakes up in Riverworld, a metaphor for being born on Earth, Hermann Goering, Mark Twain, this caveman dude, Richard Burton, no satisfactory reveal, genes wanna make more genes is not narratively interesting (it is narratively sad), free floating as true (even though it was false), how many Riverworld books, offered him too much money so he wrote book 5, what the point, ethical aliens, reach enlightenment and join this oversoul, hints, The Dark Design, a pointless war, a point about war, the blimp woman, the only queer character in any Philip Jose Farmer story, has dated Jack London before, secret truth, this book has no point, the ending of Rastignac is really good, so condensed, it needed to be way longer, curlicues and ornate spins, interesting vs. amazing, what people say about The Lovers, everyone looks like a sphinx and is a hermaphrodite, 1950s, 1960s, Joe Lansdale, Farmer’s electric brain, had Farmer submitted a script to Star Trek, a fanzine article, every week you got to a new planet (unless there’s a space anomaly), the planet of the counting coup black people, the plains Indians and the Moors, how do you deal with a culture that’s different, the presenting of a weird culture, because of his electric brain, the angst driving Farmer’s writing, he’s wearing the skin, I’ve been a god this whole time, The Rebels Unthawed, The Shadow Of Space, if you go really fast you gain mass, bigger than the universe, Sketches Among The Ruins Of My Mind, Farmerphile, issue 9, gems within,

Rastignac became brisk. He said, “We go to your castle, Giant. We use your smithy to put sharp points on our swords, points to slide through a man’s body from front to back. Don’t pale! That is what we must do. And then we pick up your goose that lays the golden eggs, for we must have money if we are to act efficiently. After that, we buy—or steal—a boat and we go to wherever the Earthman is held captive. And we rescue him. “And then?” said Lusine, her eyes shining with emotion.

“What you do then will be up to you. But I am going to leave this planet and voyage with the Earthman to other worlds.”

Silence. Then Mapfarity said, “Why leave here?”

“Because there is no hope for this land. Nobody will give up his Skin. Le Beau Pays is doomed to a lotus-life. And that is not for me.”

Archambaud jerked a thumb at the Amphib girl. “What about her people?”

“They may win, the water-people. What’s the difference? It will be just the exchange of one Skin for another. Before I heard of the landing of the Earthman I was going to fight no matter what the cost to me or inevitable defeat. But not now.”

Mapfarity’s rumble was angry. “Ah, Jean-Jacques, this is not my comrade talking. Are you sure you haven’t swallowed your Skin? You talk as if you were inside-out. What is the matter with your brain? Can’t you see that it will indeed make a difference if the Amphibs get the upper hand? Can’t you see who is making the Amphibs behave the way they have been?”

Rastignac urged the Renault towards the rose-colored lacy castle high upon a hill. The vehicle trotted tiredly along the rough and narrow forest path.

Philip K. Dick fun stuff, this is a scene from something that’s been re-imagined, this is an adventure story, a noisy car, dense and foggy, a very peaceful planet, stealing of babies is fine, because they don’t have alcohol?, a whole lot of levels, wanna mess up your life go to the bar and get in a barfight, liberté, égalité, fraternité, why is the Earth woman in this story?, a common plot element, it doesn’t need to be here, it doesn’t add anything to the story, that leads to a way off, spark a revolution, a chinwag about stuff, he started a riot, a promise of more alcohol?, where’s the evidence for that?, that would just be amazing, how to accept the skins, a classic of science fiction (in terms of ideas), adopt our ways, a YA Farmer book, super-rich and yet not satisfactory, a psychedelic art comic or cartoon art style, re-imagine it, very visual, without any piece of art to guide us, a LEGO line, very appealing to children of all ages, epees, rapiers, a coach Renault with a working jump button, a rosy coloured lacy castle, the underground cell set, the greatest LEGO movie ever, LEGO New Gaul, with so many good ideas, alas, but still, Trish would like to recommend a complete inversion of this story, Emergency Skin by N.K. Jemisin, becoming uninhabitable, centuries later…, live cooperatively and save the planet, these people are crazy they’re bad they’re obviously inferior and you need to leave”, on Audible, standalone, generally a recommendation, people are paying attention to this story, The Blasphemers, Phil is really neurotic about religion, semi-autobiographical reflections about things, have the children going to church, Phil’s lifelong battle with predestination and Hell (being traumatizing), trying to find a way to relate, Farmer almost became a Scientologist, you have to leave your wife, Sufi stuff, an extended metaphor for some aspect of Sufism, semi-podcasting life, be interesting, be interested, he’s writing stuff for sale but that’s only half of the reason he’s writing it, he was always working on something, working on your philosophical ideas, ambivalent about religion, fascinated and always searching, uniquely American, specifically intensified in American life, religious freedom, fractalization of churches, some weird religion is starting up, Falun Gong, New York, propaganda newspaper, the counter arm of the anti-Chinese government.

Fantastic Universe, May 1954

UTOPIA - Rastignac The Devil by Philip Jose Farmer

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Reading, Short And Deep #264 – The Garden Of Evil by Margaret St. Clair

Podcast

Reading, Short And DeepReading, Short And Deep #264

Eric S. Rabkin and Jesse Willis discuss The Garden Of Evil by Margaret St. Clair

Here’s a link to a PDF of the story.

The Garden Of Evil was first published in Planet Stories, Summer 1949.

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The SFFaudio Podcast #610 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: Star Hunter by Andre Norton

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #610 – Star Hunter by Andre Norton; read by Leonie Rose

This unabridged reading of the story (3 hours 37 minutes) is followed by a discussion of it.

Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Paul Weimer, Will Emmons, Trish E. Matson, and J. Manfred Weichsel talk about Starhunter by Andre Norton

Talked about on today’s show:
Ace Double d-509, Voodoo Planet, 1961, Planet Of Alien Monsters!, a thrill packed account, an interstellar safari, All Cats Are Gray, plotting, geography, this planet somewhere east of the Sierra Madre, a planetary romance, Burroughs’ Africa, Colorado-y, southern Appalachians, water cats, The Green Odyssey by Philip Jose Farmer, relationships vs. biome, safari planet, the sounds of little animals, its the seas are so shallow, Beast Master by Andre Norton, Eye Of The Monster, The Sioux Spaceman, it feels like a series book, space buffalo trap, the sloth people, the takeaway, colonial planets, the county library, The Crystal Gryphon, Quag Keep, bait and switch, Double Star by Robert A. Heinlein, a lost heir in space story, the alien mystery was not even solved, People Of The Crater, Star Born, the preliminary art, Jesse is always seduced by the art, a big hole, a famous science fiction writer, Tarzan as a scam (Tarscam), reframe it from the boy’s POV, Lovecraft’s The Outsider, YOU ARE LORD GREYSTOKE!, every time there’s a piece of technology in this story it fails, the alien field, nevermind about that, as a piece of science fiction all the technology is basically useless, let’s have the kid genetically tested, a half-assed plan, a D&D character rolling a 1, provide complications and fill pages, compare this to Kim and The Jungle Book, Citizen Of The Galaxy, Romulus and Remus, my Robot Jox (1989) movie was not inspired by Transformers, I can do that, an heir to something greater, the greatest spy in the Great Game, a mop boy, a dive bar on a cantina planet, part of this Mandalorian religion, a drugged cup of joe, the fake lost heir, intrigue on an alien planet, maybe they’ll find the actual boy, a The Prince And The Pauper situation, writing it over the weekend and handing it in, the Time Trader novels, could Paul draw a map of where they go and what the geography is?, a safari for what?, that looks like a great book, hiding in the foreground, TECHNOLOGY!, sloth man, even the sloth kid doesn’t get the star treatment, spy vs. spy stuff, in the background of the universe, it could have been a cool story, their sociology their anthropology, if you have a science fiction premise, implanting memories in people’s minds, what would that mean?, I am from the future and here is my rocketship to take you to the Moon, promises to the reader, skeptical straight from the getgo, the sloth people, this should be some sort of mirror to our hero, what is he doing there?, turns out nothing important, (drawing Jesse in), aliens secretly running a planet, the Jack Vance Planet Of Adventure novels, Fredric Brown’s Arena, that story is all symbols, a plastiform hand just like Luke Skywalker, Cool!, make him cool!, gentlefemme, one of the things she’s famous for, pardon Paul’s language, economic classes, ethnic groups, an external mystery or threat, Jumanji, Finnish for God, why?, how much drug taking is going on, maybe this *IS* the Great Game, sort of a YA novel, the relationship that Kipling had to his wetnurse, an analog for him, sympathy for the lower classes, of earth stock, because billionaires, a fascinating universe hidden behind the meandering weak plot, special skill, now he wants revenge, it doesn’t work, what was all that for?, an episode of Johnny Quest, if you follow it closely, the art of Johnny Quest, for small children, disrespectful to children, Lord Tyger by Philip Jose Farmer, create a Tarzan in real life, an interesting premise, counting on Farmer for more fun, more interesting than fun, decepticons stuff, Farmer doesn’t know what he’s doing, explanation (don’t care so much), heavy at points, sexual violence, what Tarzan would be like in real life, bad things, a bad person, lynching black men who killed his man, an aesthetic choice, chaste on camera, the whole wild child phenomenon is fascinating, when these things happen, it has happened many times, parents abandoning children, adopted by animals, a logic to it, what is what we do to all our pets, domesticating them as a part of the family, my furbabies, dogs are a part of out society, we have capabilities that they don’t, why Jesse?, I know how it ends, Jesse has his own systems, everybody is immoral in this book, the systems they live within are immoral, sloth guy, that’s a lie, totally immoral, that’s the name of the book, he feels guilty about it, the kid has no future anyway, killed in a bar fight, there’s another way to run this, Andre Norton tries for a saving throw, c’mon man, going along with it would be immoral, you can’t lie to animals exactly, maybe Will would look at it from a legal POV, what are they liable to be charged with?, unlawful confinement, the police’s involvement, condoned by the state, intelligence circles, that’s all they do, yo, programming people, kidnapping, a capital crime, the quasi-police, entrapment, she doesn’t know what she’s doing, ok I’m writing a book this weekend, a Norton quirk, criminals are heroes in the past, Robin Hood, Suicide Squad, The Many Colored Land by Julian May, in the news this week, statues getting pulled down, they were given statues, Winston Churchill, you can’t be a good person and run the empire, the only good person, he’s vying for power?, Jesse can be wrong about books, The Mound by Zealia Bishop and H.P. Lovecraft, maybe totalitarianism and…, the gaining of knowledge is the only thing worth doing, I was promised a headless ghost living in a mound, that’s shit, their heads are inside their torsos, fine here’s your book, dismiss Norton as not worth reading, this is her worst book, Sea Siege is worse, that’s not cool, a nuclear war, trails and goes nowhere, the scene on the cover is fairly early in the book, some ace books, The Zap Gun by Philip K. Dick was written to order, a philosophical meditation on the meaning of weapons, it tricked me, the power of a really good cover, when you were young, on an island with no electricity, Smaug sitting on that pile sold me, John’s selling his book based on the cover, the promise of the cover, Lawrence Block doesn’t make bad books, this speaks to me, Jon’s first science fiction book Starman Jones, an aerospace museum gift shop, there’s a little monkey guy on the cover, there’s always Starman Jones, an up and comer, Red Planet, their best friend Willis, a YA thing, the hero or heroine and his furry companion, Star Beast, a pet in the family, we should have just read that, Star Beast is fun, how the economy works, the avuncular wisdom of Heinlein, off planet, these are competing books on the used bookstore bookshelf, more of the same (more cool interesting stuff), more of the stuff you love, Animal Kingdom, crime, Isaac Asimov, Donald E. Westlake, Larry Niven, playing fair, The Long Arm Of Gil Hamilton, Blaking Bad, there is a kind of detachment once you realize the government isn’t going to help you, a quasi dystopia, that perfect setup, he did the right thing, his students are making fun of him, I’m going to use my skills for evil, your background premise, it shows the deficiency even more, orphanages, debatable, unchecked institutions, surplus kids dropped off on people’s doorsteps, orphan trains, WWII, The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe, Ellen Barkin, a family of adult boys, they all hate the mom, willing to kill people, they have a lot of money, you cant go to the cops or the church or the neighbors, sharpen some weapons, put some food aside for a rainy day, following a situation like that, The Shield, he gets a desk job, a weird kind of punishment, at least he’s not happy, the audience for that show is all the people who don’t have that day job, what do you think Andre Norton is thinking, the drugs and the orphans, a massive dystopia outside the tiny little view of it, expand please, the traumas of the post war moment are right under the surface, America in 1961, before the War on Poverty programs, back from WWII and the Korean War, taking turns at the uncle’s house, the backdrop, our society, in this strange sci-fi setting, plenty of orphans, Fake Heiress, another survival technique, assumed identity, past the Mississippi be a different person, Henry Morton Stanley, Joseph Conrad, ornamental last names, the morality of big game hunting, accidentally hunt humans, trophy hunting, grandbosses, contact protocols, implied shooting of aliens, another technology failure, this stuff never fail, there’s only a few of them, a class thing, the guides, the rich guy doesn’t need the food, this trap may be there to kill water cats (over hundreds of years), very small planet, passive fishing, shortly thereafter the megafauna disappear, anything we cant domesticate becomes food, having a distaste for big game hunting, ridiculous and stupid, maybe hippos are yummy, a taste problem, go read a book yo, just something to do, like jetskiing, what the billionaire class does, I must have my water cat, rich clueless idiot tourists, the collector who wants to classify every butterfly, on the level intellectually of really liking go-carts, a very basic visceral thrill, something to brag about, The Most Dangerous Game by Richard Connell, he’s exactly like Zaroff now, this is his castle now, that’s a Jesse thought, Jesse just wants to hunt people, check it out, Trish has a different conclusion, the most popular download, more than a quarter of a million downloads, the Russian angle, a 1924 story, his noble seat, now he’s gone too far, Shiptrap Island, a different show, recommendations, Sneaky Pete, bonds vs. bail bonds, satisfying, Brat Farrar by Josephine Tey, great great great, Jo Walton review, doppelgangers, earth stock vs. space stock, compact vs. elongated, The Smoke Ring, The Integral Trees, big ideas, small plot problem, their tree is falling apart, those big ideas sure are big, we squeezed this very slim volume dry, something she does often, it is not PC, it is PC, it can be both, identifying with the natives, an anti-colonial novel, The Sioux Spaceman his hawk-man style costume, a very political book, she changed her name to match her pseudonym, that sounds like fun book, it sounds like Star Trek, investigate the universe and fix it all up, a stagnant galaxy, a Foundation TV show, let’s get on this spaceship and have a conversation, one day there should be books in a library, on the other side of the galaxy, one day there will be a Mule, that will be important, Paul Krugman must be wetting his pants, a superhero movie about The Mule, the I, Robot (2004) movie, The Naked Sun, a murder mystery.

Andre Norton's Star Hunter - preliminary art by Ed Emshwiller

Star Hunter by Andre Norton

ACE DOUBLE D-509 - Star Hunter by Andre Norton

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