The SFFaudio Podcast #802 – READALONG: The Seventh by Richard Stark

Jesse, Will Emmons, Terence Blake, and Trent Reynolds talk about The Seventh by Richard Stark

Talked about on today’s show:
sometimes published as The Split, the movie kinda sucks, it should be excellent, not one character actor in it, Jim Brown, Donald Sutherland, Gene Hackman, the girls are fine, they fuckaround with the plot a lot, convincingly convinced, impossible to make Parker a character on film, watched the movie then finished the book, Parker is off the page a lot in those books, entire acts where he’s offscreen, they can’t get inside his head, the old narrator problem, voice over narration, talk to the guy sick in bed, she goes away and gets some tea, do you want lemon or sugar or cream or milk, Parker doesn’t know anything about tea, ignorant of vast swaths of humanity’s interest, pop up menu like The Terminator, he doesn’t operate like a normal human, at the end of the book we see something out of character: he laughs, emotionless or pissed off, he’s not a human, he’s some aspects or parts of human, trying to run people off the road, to test them for his crew?, the character lacks definition, they want to make Parker into a film so bad, it never works, The Sour Lemon Score, Harvey Keitel in City Of Industry (1997), one scene where they’re at a stoplight and cops pull up next to them, this little mechanism, professional and amateur, more than ten years, The Man With The Getaway Face, Ask The Parrot is better, one of the scores, The Black Ice Score, black panthers, The Score, somebody loves every book, no rhyme or reason to it, Slayground, fairly typical of the books, a heist of some kind, trouble dividing the money, thieves fall out, how did you find this book, the beginning, slow, badly prepared, the blurbs, this is amazing in pace, you can’t put it down, not sleep til u finished it, nobody knows what’s happening, the action crystalizes, false tracks, so much description, he has to describe everything, hands, the realist principle, a less good book if you took out the descriptions, a four and a half hour book, unputdownable, the time aspect, Parker thinking, time had been playing tricks like that, an hour took a week or more to be done with, the personality (despite it’s almost absence) underneath the opposition between amateur and pro, different stupidities, the pro vs. the amateur, another type of stupidity, a key, a meta level explaining other detective thrillers, richer in the second half, subtle about his philosophy, makes you want to read the books, super-formulaic, Westlake is writing a formula, he’s being playful, I guess for my seventh book, 1966, feels a little bit earlier, fins on the cars, middle sixties, the secret hidden philosophy or anxieties behind all of Westlake’s fiction, obsessed with insurance, Abe Klinger, a temporary condition that had lasted about twelve years, television was to blame, an insidious monster in living rooms, taxes getting worse every year, barely possible, except for the rotten box, kiddie matinee on Saturday, always a double feature, a nice friendly neighborhood theater, the public library, long suffering voices, in every Westlake Parker book, we get inside other character’s minds, they become sympathetic, reconciling all these modes of being, insurance is worry, it’s a concern, “detective” thriller, this has a mystery in it, failed, he writes crime fiction, closer to suspense than mystery, the light face and the dark face detective, present himself as an agent of change, The Risk Profession, a murder mystery about insurance, successful, the Dortmunder series, high 20s, built up the crew, Kifka, Abe Klinger, had he not been shot, sympathize with him, an amazing choice, wrote this just for money, television or sensationalism came along and ruined everything, very brainful, uses thoughts to create characters, the killer’s problem is he’s an amateur, a non-functioning penis, vituperative girlfriend, bad with his hands, imagery that goes with the sword, it felt good in his hands, letters from prison, criminals get away with it, chance to get away with a crime, Westlake is cerebral, a non-cerebral character, the Reacher series, powered through it, he’s no longer a Terminator, an attempt at acting (was bad), the first season was very solid, had reviewed the book, he’s not Conan, Conan doesn’t have a pension, Conan is not patriotic, our anti-hero is not patriotic, a little bit of Parker’s backstory, a criminal when he was in the army, he doesn’t love his country, he doesn’t think about that at all, a red blooded American, spit on the flag, Westlake is not a super-patriot, surrounded by patriots, Westlake’s real passion, he like community theater, finances his fun with his skill, a furniture maker, put out of business, so now he’s a criminal, Grofield, puts his heisting money into his theatre, in The Score, Parker puts together the heist, show up and look like a manager, the detail work on the other characters, a depth of character, figuring out life philosophy, how to be in the world, what’s the point of crime fiction?, edifying, in this particular instance, the leader, the money was stolen out from under him, abandon this and run away?, an amateur stole from him, with his seventh, Westlake rewarding Parker, a professional pirate, doesn’t have a nation, makes war on all the world, and is vengeful on those who break the covenant, they’re all armed, a homosexual relationship, you got to go to a doctor!, goes vengeful on Parker, acting irrationally, they’re not his friends, they are colleagues, they are comrades, the best Parker on film is Quentin Tarantino’s Reservoir Dogs, you’re acting like a punk, various psychopathic characters, a very Parker/Stark scene, a war of all of us against the institutions that are betraying us, the cop is probably the smartest character in the book, they’re doppelgangers, family life has made him weak, all that’s crap, the hardness in the eyes, sit for an exam to become a Terminator, need more training, Parker is a stripped down version of a human, there’s no hubcaps, the engine runs great, there’s a crack in the windshield, Parker’s sexual stuff, no sexual need or interest, all he does for three days is fuck, he’s not normal, Sherlock Holmes, A Study In Scarlet, zero interest in astronomy, completely ignores it, he knows about Chinese Tongs and the KKK, that’s kind of Parker too, his definition of what is extraneous is a whole lot more, he has no interesting in that, you’re a fool if you believe it, people call Parker a shark, what he’s not doing, a white sandy bitch named Michelle, completely stripped down, in stripping it down, Moriarty is famous for The Dynamics Of An Asteroid, interested in puppeteering things, he even abandons his face, plastic surgery, his name doesn’t matter, “Call me Joe”, Mr. Brown, Mr. Blue, Mr. Pink, to pull off a big heist, better off with no partners, his human foibles (wanting to have sex with a lady), makes him a bad Terminator, offered to him like a sacrifice to a god, and then he laughs, neat little bow, none of this would have happened, what makes him not a robot, so iconic, so compelling, Mel Gibson is not Parker, Lee Marvin is not Parker, how do you do that tea scene?, only in novel form, what’s the point of this?, made the argument, getting into the philosophy of life, the same appeal, what does it mean to have this kind of person, go through the character list, the least fucked up guy is the cop, the least sketched, he makes a great breakthrough and is killed before he can say it, he figures out, Morry, on Will’s deep question, read these things if you want a point from them, what’s the point of having these people in the world, having unplugged people (from the system), born that way, became that way, the partially unplugged, the craft guy, outlet malls, sort of yet another image of Bartleby (the Scrivner), more active, we can’t be Bartleby because it is humiliating, why is it humiliating, Conan is always an active agent in a story he’s thrust into, literally fights a god, Westlake is torturing Parker and entertaining us, this is not just entertainment, about life philosophy, compared to Reacher, Conan is not a patriot, animalistic efficiency, we animals, tricked into patriotism and friendships, allies not friends, judging them on their reliability, a little out of character, determined to go get this guy, they guy doesn’t know who he is, makes him act stupidly, rewarding the reader, more than one dynamic, Butcher’s Moon, Grofield gets kidnapped, logically he shouldn’t be doing it, taking it as a personal insult, a rationalization, tie up a loose end, he doesn’t know what Parker looks like, he doesn’t know his name, middle sized North Eastern town, Parker is married, driving a Toyota Avalon, commonlaw married, as long as he doesn’t bring it home, Westlake in later life, knows who he is, still heisting, how to be in the world, a knife-edge sort of thing, Westlake is a humourist, literally executes a guy, superstitious, Parker picks up the gun and shoots him with it, please help me, making yourself submit, bureaucracies are not good at helping people, superstitious fool with a dick problem who is a murder, why he is mad at Parker, a lot of sex in this book for a book not about sex, Parker thinks he’s just being logical, he’s restoring order in his universe, not logical that an amateur could beat a professional, a personal affront that must be punished, once you’ve unplugged from the system and be a heister, a lucky coincidence, a little off-topic, bring it in, Jesse does a lot of tutoring, a “leadership” class, pretend that they’re teaching them leadership, it makes no sense, automatically a non-leader, how well you behave, write a land acknowledgment, what leaders do, this land was stolen improperly, insert band name here, that was really bad that we stole it from them, land claims and treaties, that’s submitting to a system, if you control your class with a whip, a classroom full of kids with whips, guns and knives, leadership is really weird, everybody has guns and they can all shoot you at any point, not a real thing guys, an assortment of associates, big cave man energy, where do chiefs come from?, people who don’t have a lot of concrete in their sidewalks, characters of ridicule, similarly strange adjacent jobs, medicine man, wise old woman, takes an active role to try to get the money back, wants to get revenge, a professional is a person who gets wins aka the money, wanting things that an amateur would want, when somebody hits you, hitting you with words, violence is a good solution, a tit for tat, escalating, punishing with impunity, stealing from a football game, an ivy league football game, a charity day, they spent all day, one of the most complicated things to do, passed over really quickly, they focus on the wrong things, the logical scaffolding, the most sensational thing, he doesn’t describe that, his book is a paired down thing, it is four tapes, it feels bigger than it is, time going strange, jump backwards in time, the complication, the complication, the conclusion, fascinated by the character, what he’s saying about people and how to be in the world, the guy drives an old car, he can upgrade to an Edsel, gets a pat on the head, when he goes to his boss, his boss never graduated high school, why would that matter, this is something I understand, the cap and gown shit, a place of punishment, i need to go to university, that’s where the fun is, not playing by the rules, working for Klaus Schwab, obey the laws that make sense, nobody listens, what are they gonna do about it?, insurance, financial insecurity, that money not being in your pocket at all times, an aspect of the larger thing, the book that came before it, years salting away money, gigantic nest egg, the end of the previous book, no faith in institutions, the government is corrupt, taking your good pills, everybody in Parkerland, this person is a really great person, you know what his problems are, very wholesome, revenge is unhealthy for you, resentment is a poison that you take to make another person die, you have to take care of yourself, never see him on a roulette table, he’s not 007, he’s the opposite of James Bond, that James Bond book Westlake wrote, hired to write a James Bond movie set in Hong Kong, actors, rights issues, filed the serial numbers off, Tomorrow Never Dies, Westlake is not Ian Fleming, an engineer not a spy, really long, the writing is never bad, they’re all experiments, a formula always works, he was trying to write a Jack Reacher book, a thick thriller you could sell at airports, Dancing Aztecs, cash-ins, decadent, if you just look at the handwork he does with characters, a little bit about Parker’s attitude towards people’s names, Mutt and Jeff, a clumsy haste, that’s comedy writing there, don’t move, Cops And Robbers, lower middle class cops become criminals, a foile a deux, The Outfit, doesn’t feel like a Parker novel at all, The Stepfather, two sequels, about a man’s mind, Block is more straight up, very cerebral, why do people like reading Stephen King books?, children and children’s psychology, grappling with stuff in fiction, largely about how to live in the United States, a college course out of his books, largely about political corruption, civic corruption, openly mocked, the wrong wing of communism, an imperial country, through the course of life, disidentified with Australia, disidentified with English, a rootless cosmopolitan, probably more Australia, Nice, an anti-Proustian experience, unrecognizable, the basic elements, Hyde Park, Sydney, the opera house, the harbour bridge, the sea and the sky, that particular sea and the sky, an American flag, red paint on the sidewalks, chain restaurants, too big, don’t like Justin, nice people everywhere, Turkey, Kentucky, being rooted, Frederick Heimbach, making digs, not committed, what trauma, personality defect or personality superpower, lose faith in institutions, what patriotism is, love the flag as the symbol of that thing, so many different kinds of Christian, soldiers and anti-soldiers, pacifists?, violence, violence at the dinner table, responses to violence and violation, Parker was on to something, refers to the woman, a receptacle, slightly more than that, a liability, annoying, fuck her while he’s sick, comedy, helping you, keepin you warm, that person seems more well adjusted than Parker, able to hold down a job, their backstory, sex him up, a dry run for Claire, healthy marriage, don’t bring the corpses into the garage, coffee will be ready in 10 minutes, says when he’s done, seen this relationship before, you have your hobbies she has hers, the sex while sick, she never caught, the other woman in the story, the madam who talks to much, always wants to have chats, Hazel?, Madge!, a retired hooker, a cathouse runner, showing up at Madge’s place, that’s not Parker, lovingly, friends or something?, she gets one of the sixths, the beat up spot, Book 1, Chapter 4, less than a hundred bills to his name, outside of Scranton, our president, strange conversation, fun, a Kifkaesque conversation, in her 60s now, when age retired her, too talkative, too nervous, rented mostly by the hour, stay and talk, Parker not being able, I’ll go there, I’ll fix the drinks, everyday was old home week, her gossiping, she never shut it with insiders, beautiful prop work, 4 cassettes, 4 hours 22 minutes, a weird life philosophy going on, we all gotta deal in the world, shut up, maybe, is this how to behave?, self-contained, not completely, people who can’t sit alone in a room with a book, where ethyl was sitting at the desk, mentally retarded, Bob Negly, the second Parker book, best Parker book?, The Score, the sandwich in between two classics, an old communist back in the day, he’s dumb now, a doctor who does facial reconstructions, he doesn’t think real good, the retarded girl, why did he do that, he’s really good with character work, he’s just so strange, it’s not representation, exactly, flawed characters keep people in their lives out of duty, duty, explaining why Parker goes after Grofield, when somebody does something wrong, make things even, rather than revenge, very subtle, nemesis, fate or The Cold Equations, everything is logical and that’s the way things are, correct the anomaly without emotion, a nemesis who takes a personal interest, the god, infringements of the cosmic order, that was wrong, wrong as in it was a mistake, acting improperly, violating the tao, a big part of it, something you don’t appreciate, a violation, rectification, correction, an nemetic, various way of being taciturn, a defect, useful, she doesn’t blab about what she learns, they don’t talk back, a scene where Madge blabs for an hour and a half, sits there and lets her talk, chatter away, Parker doesn’t watch TV, Lawrence Block’s characters read , hangs out on the beach, does job, he needs to know the psychology of people, he sums them up, studies and analyzes and sums up, “Parker didn’t”, often not diding things, that opening is so nice, it went with a dry cracking sound, Parker raised his foot, the door popped open like it was surprised, his plans were loused up now, Parker didn’t want drinks, no to Negly, a joke about vengeance, it wasn’t cash Negly wanted, the amateur first, find out how the situation now stood, “handy”, Parker uses people for his own good, as pieces on a chessboard, manipulating himself, drink cigarettes and eat beer, always in opposition, more of the same, he’s not on the property ladder, playing his own game, what makes you an amateur is you don’t get the money, convincing, why Jesse likes Parker so much, why Jesse likes Conan so much, Solomon Kane is insane, funny that you mention that, the Del Rey collection, wish there had been a lot more, doesn’t write a lot of novels, all about Satan, there’s only his mind thinking there is Satan, morally insane, he think he’s serving god, slays visions, whatever is happening you’re delusional, he never reconciled some of the contradictions, Staff of Solomon, buddy buddy with the witchdoctor, derives his power from Satan, the right hand of vengeance, more vengeance than nemesis, another big gap, better than Conan stories, we did pretty good, the Harlan Ellison tweet, the land of fear, throw out you fucking copy of Finnegan’s Wake, very Harlan Ellison, even when his novel doesn’t gel, heights and insights, not a character guy, he’s good at that, that’s really good, he’s really on to something, let’s rob a rock concert, let’s rob a casino, variations on a theme, the weirdness of how to be in the world, the books exist for the fallout, the heist is never the focus, when the stuff hits the fan, what he likes to explore with these, he was a cop in the airforce, white caps [“snow tops”], Dortmund, a German beer, puts everything he’s experiencing and puts it in his stories, The Green Eagle Score, an unproduced screenplay for that, owned by a major studio, lucky that they didn’t make it, Parker has a brother, no, Parker doesn’t have family, Ransom, Black Ice, Green Eagle, Sour Lemon, Rare Coin, the most violent, torture stuff, mostly offscreen, they didn’t pay for the rights when they made City Of Industry, attempts to try to capture Westlake, there’s problems with it, how many Westlake films were produced, one of the most adapted guys ever, Bram Stoker’s Dracula, Brothers Keepers, post show scheduling, a Ray Cummings, Cat-Woman by Ray Cummings, 13 pages, Selina’s Big Score, it is better not to picture Parker, watching the movie adaptations, the best Parker on screen was Robert Duvall, he’s nothing like Parker, The Outfit, the philosophy doesn’t translate, a really good read, Stark, all on purpose, a webcomic called Gravedigger, Point Blank, where to find it now, track everything, real comics, Lee Marvin on the cover, a lady lying on a floor topless, a dude wrapped up in ropes, a trapper’s shack in Yukon, the mad gods laughed at my helpless plight, a murdering ravening beast, shudder pulp, cringe pulp, weird menace, later 1930s early 1940s, a lot of torture, weird cults, Mike Vendetti started getting into it, finally found my genre, sloppily written stories, racism, sex and torture, with deep philosophical reflection on modes of maleness, men want to save women, meet cute, hooded cultists, you go into cave, branding with swastikas, to make them nude, working theory, designed to make men have romantic adventures on how to make girlfriends, not a great prose stylist, the other options on Ray Cummings, Space Liner X-37, renegade Venusian, manacled hands, Mark Nelson, mixing it up with something good, not a good reputation amongst us, Cirsova, bad Alex?, that Alex, one is better than the other?, morally?, you want to pair up?, something that we’ll know it will be good, next open slot, time to research, something thematically related, rising intonation, Terence is powerful like that, Call Me Joe, in the science fiction industry, a collection of planetary adventures, Dragon Queen Of Jupiter, all read by the same narrator, trying to play it cutesy, In The Orbit Of Saturn by R.F. Starzl, Stupendous Spectacles Of The Solar System In Space, Prize Ship [by Philip K. Dick], 1931, the dreaded solar scourge, spend to much time on Mars you go mad, “space madness”, David H. Keller, awful and long, detective tryyna figure out why this chinese religion is so popular, dresses up as a Chinese, underneath the altar, a drug front, he can do wrong, religion is the opium of the people, warping himself, all of the Taine stories, somebody has to do the job, for the collective, liking your tweets because I like your tweets, might even quote tweets, we can have a beef, whistle at tweets, The Gun by Philip K. Dick, a trigger warning, a content warning, Tommy Patrick Ryan, bad idea, unsuccessfully modeled my mind, land acknowledgment, don’t fall for it, don’t like hypocrisy, an Indian community, Indians who take advantage of their status to self-aggrandize, not better people, it’s okay if a woman bombs us, fighting a straw man, am I?, no!, taking advantage, how big a problem, Inuit and the Metis, just above a million one hundred thousands, as a percentage, cultural genocide, actual genocide, less Indian wars, we have to be careful, for what reason?, Paul getting in trouble or not getting in trouble (at the hands of western administrators), it was western liberals, Camestros Felapton?, liberals collaborating with or submitting to communists, just did it, hilarious, back to the Hugos, hott goss, if Paul had won Fan Writer, we shouldn’t have a convention in China because of the Uyghur genocide, if you stretch the definition, vs. actual genocide in Gaza, because they’re cowards, they don’t beleive the video of their eyes, they’d rather believe the government lies, tagging in that word is calling it a cultural holocaust, murder and culture destruction, deliberate and widespread attempt to steal kids and their language, Jesse concentration camp, particularly egregious, the previous convention was in Canada, nobody was all up in arms about dead children in Canada, anti-China hate, Nixon is a lot more reasonable, Nancy Pelosi trying to start WWIII with China, The Mad Planet by Murray Leinster, Demons Of Cthulhu, a concession to will, Starman Jones, a concession to Jesse, The Stone Dragon by R. Murray Gilchrist, sweaty looking guy with a nice mustache, Temple Bar, The Yellow Book, The Crimson Weaver, a great Edge, the Valley of the Willowbreaks, sleeping side by side, fresh gathered heather, wallless bridge, The Domain of the Crimson , a beldame, ossier, enter not the domain of the crimson weaver, behold I was beautiful once, discovered the foulness of her bosom, she is mad, that sounds good, Eldritch Archives, The Werewolf’s Daughter by H. Warner Munn, Farmer friends, you should, Time Is The Simplest Thing by Clifford D. Simak, the beginning premise blew Terence’s mind, Exiles To Glory by Jerry Pournelle, a right wing guy, he’s wrong, because welfare slums, a senior engineering student at UCLA, murderous “youth gang”, kills an inner city resident and has to run, you don’t kill juvies in this town, on the run and all of earth there was no place to hide, 144 pages, 5-6 hours, YA, a response to Heinlein, interested in right-wingers, tarred by people who claim to be left wingers, unacceptable and wrong and hypocritical, patriotic communism, very internationalist, the neighbourhood and the biome, Kentucky is an area in addition to a state, used to be a statehouse, the long view on nations, too soon to tell, Zhou Enlai on the French Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, Mao’s right hand man, educated by a rich Chinese man, studied in France, how do you feel about funding this young man, the just so story, being funded by a rich man, signed up, solved, What Mad Universe by Fredric Brown, how did we get Scott on there?, The Fearless Benjamin Lay by Marcus Rediker, vegetarian dwarf, vegetarianism is a mistake, maybe too soon to tell, Hitler and Benjamin Lay, probably both liked dogs but not to eat, Hitler had two eyes, you like architecture, hey you live in Europe, the stupidest argument, the guy pops out of a hole in a well, and yet you live in a society, as a response on twitter, so stupid, latent patriotic tendencies, an episode of American history, Evan is fiercely patriotic, it is a vice, Evan loves vices, he wants to earn enough money and be a prepper?, Wisconsin, he has failed to Terence properly, Mad Max novelization, might be a problem, motorcycle and biker gangs, one of the finest films, Mad Max II, an extravaganza of awesome, the dog dying, baby schmaybe, the grandma with the shotgun, Cundilini with his hand missing, likes Shakespeare with motorcycle gangs, 1981, rust on the details, Thunderdome is not as good, almost a comedy, fun things, more accessible to children, Tina Turner, the blue lagoon, great character, be the queen of capitalism, that weird airplane, native Australian project, air taxi/crop-duster, who isn’t in to planes?, cars are pretty good too, transformers, they can hide, they’re in disguise, secret identity, secretly millions of years old, I can transform, Dragon Queen Of Jupiter, fascinated by the world of Mad Max, Audiobooks For The Damned, funny names and numbers, all pirate, doing it out of love vs. commercial purposes, Commercialism: The Curse Of Art by Lovecraft’s wife, I must fund him, I must save him, I can save her, she’s like that with Lovecraft, none of us can be saved in the end, recorded in his car, AFTB #68, the account exists in a limbo state, the cancellers, really trolly, I like this person because they like copyright, fuck off, you can’t get me, ignore it, their collection of dung beetle photographs, probably awesome, very interested in the passions of the people, Midwestern Marx, Liger, patriotic communist, who is Destiny?, Twitch, in conversation with other people, Steven Kenneth Bonnell II, it is not genocide if it is during a war, don’t tell him, Omaha, Nebraska, superwhite, most Cubans in the united states, dispossessed, Evan says “I like Vaush”, he likes him, streamers or youtubers, American youtuber, the Hugo kerfuffle, used to have one of those ear gages things, about audiobooks, passionately doing, voting for Biden to help your portfolio, Scott Miller, he’s not an analyzer, 2022 output, Imagination, Planet Stories, episode zero, recording the unrecorded, noble, a perfectionist, make it as good as possible, good at voices, got pretty good taste, I’m in love with you, sir, one everyday, Herland by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, far enough out, one question about Queen Of Air And Darkness, orienting question, some blood quantum Cherokee, just as mentioned, the woman is like let them keep their ways, put them on a reservation, interesting of course, what that’s about, what’s the significance of that if any?, Dercum Audio, Thompson, or Tetty?, for the sake of Will, the name of the author in the files, free audiobooks, Tom Tetty, the last glow of the last sunset, left in the ‘if you your cassette is not working’, collecting stamps, media archaeology, how much tech has changed, Books On Tape, amalgamated and amalgamated, now Audible owns everything, whole scandal going on, Findaway voices scandal, go back to the basics: audiobooks for the damned, an Amber series fan fiction, John Betancourt, costs money, disgusting, how to do a lot of copyright, actively trying to make money at a basically impossible task, megapacks, legal dispute over the word “megapack”, trying to make a living, sad for Paul, he’s playing a rigged game, you know you’re getting scammed, worse and more corrupt, this book sucks, why is it getting a Hugo award, They’d Rather Be Right, Mark Clifton, co authored book, why are you playing, school’s business is not education, obey orders, learn propaganda, babysit you, not the prevailing sentiment, so mean to his students, otherwise you are subject to them, how would you know?, the etymology, solved with drills, shampoo is a scam, why is shampoo a scam?, of course, I’m normal, it smells nice, soap does not have the same effect, axe body spray, bad for them, that they have to use up, that don’t help them, we’re taught it, what did people do before toothpaste?, we just buy the shit they tell us to, a history of shampoo, since ancient times, long hair, a daily indulgence, putting yourself in the upperclass, something people do, learning to play piano, they feel like they need to, it’s all unconscious, what shampoo do you use?, if you’re a girl, get away with having no hair, punish girls in France for having babies with nazis, nazi babies, her hair!, proportional to the crime, a truth and reconciliation process, just solved it with a haircut, as much as a woman values your hair, you can’t have books for six years, a horrible punishment, you’d have to talk to people, what books have you read recently? they have to struggle, some school assignment, can’t we be friends?, people are talking about a book you should read, so rare, do French people read at all?, they read more than Americans, probably dying a cultural affectation, a sociological study of who reads non-fiction cultural books, it is good to learn stuff, some books are not meant to be read, anything written by Barack Obama, briefing books for their activists, Hillary Clinton, report on what’s in there, they don’t know what they’re saying to their ghost writers, a lot of shit for school, get to read Othello, Shakespeare is so fuckin awesome, the sexy one, The Taming Of The Shrew, way in, new theory just dropped, Iago’s the badguy, undermine Othello and his marriage, Iago’s gay for Othello, pretty good theory, I hate the moor, you act like you’re obsessed with him, interpretations, reaching for Desdemona, Iago reaches for Othello, a cool interpretation, a cool tragedy, this last information, shampoo your hair, eating and sleeping, ammonium laurel suphate, rub the glycol all around, people won’t object to your hair anymore, eat more yeast, some problems with flatulence, we’ll book it next time, relationship with shampoo, how often?, how many ablutions per day, once a month?, more than once a week, struggle to say more than that, another product, try never to use it, long hair, big, afro like, get a bidet, bidets are my new religion, buy a second one, very useful, saves money, cleanly, saves time, very Heinleinian, the fresher, oh no!, used to being clean, not covered in paper shit, mandatory, standard, a propaganda campaign, if you learn nothing else: bidets are the way, blog posts, setting up a blog is annoying, manage account names, to give Musk money, longform reads, tweet threads, an opportunity cost, twitter is a reading diary, searchable, shareable, David H. Keller 2023 tweets, a popular magazine, Popular Publications, topics Will could explore, freeform, follow your passion, engaging with audio, get more fiction into you, sitting sucks, not wasting time and money, post there, if you got offline, the internet has been ruined, google doesn’t listen blogs anymore, they don’t exist anymore, defunded, duckduckgo started caving to the baddies, go to the websites, what’s a better search engine?, the dot com, blog search, so focused on extracting money it doesn’t do its service anymore, the guy in the store today, he thought he was a good institution, a part of the community, enjoying the things he provided to the community, mom and pop restaurants still exist in small towns, what happened?, it’s all wrecked, it’s tough, store restaurant gas station, cute and nice, minimal population, cheap land, people with time and interest in being able to subsidize a small gas station restaurant, this doesn’t seem so foreign, a familiar Kentucky thing, Culver’s, ice cream custard?, a thick ice cream, best frozen custard, Dairy Queen Blizzard, Concrete mixer, mix in your rocks, have you ever had a jelly baby?, Doctor Who candy, a dalek, penny candy for kids, shaped like little babies, better flavours, blackcurrant, delicious and subtle, blackberries are free, nobody grows blackberries on purpose, her microclimate is very dry, not a lot of extra water for blackberries, a post a week, the pace, what Will’s doing with his life right now, sequester, a tablet, dreams, no shampoo, eating black currants, look at the list of ingredients and then look them up, Harry’s mens products, accused of enjoying the smell of things to much, overdosed on perfumes, laundry detergent with no scent, unscented detergent, unscented cat litter, you should smell like nothing, stone scented deodorant, antiperspirants, toothpaste, toothpicks, Nelson Mandela’s autobiography, boarding school, ashes, doesn’t sound delicious, enjoying the flavour of toothpaste, there’s no movements like this, veganism is the new religion, anti-scent religion, how sensitive people are to autism, not just stuff injected into your body, covered in rashes, a sensitive organ, the whole purpose is to make fucking money, all products produced under capitalism, how these things go, love LibriVox, recording audiobooks in their basements, a prison project for prisoners to record audiobooks, a serial killer recorded some V.C. Andrews, very interesting, prison book programs, you could study and it is not mandatory, a privilege, turn them all into lawyers, a student today, push a lot of science fiction and fantasy, the excuse is vocab, vocabulary through poems, god forbid, essays, so fucking awful, book introductions, little editorial prefaces, Robert Silverberg’s Worlds Of Wonder, what he thinks are awesome stories, Alfred Bester, C.L. Moore, so good, paid him money, The Monsters by Robert Sheckley, sent to Scott, Scanners Live In Vain, Colony, Light Of Other Days, Day Million, Who Am I Which Are You, The Triumph Of Honest Bellamy, Don’t Forget To Kill Your Wife, Fuzzy Puzzle Odyssey, Six Plots For The Price Of One, I Trusted The Rug Completely, A Boy, A Girl, A Lovestory, 164, respect yes, wobbly publishers, fine feelings, a demi-god, 1953, Philadelphia, Columbia, professional writers, verges are uncomfortable places, immense lobby, Harlan Ellison, a little stir in the lobby, a slender graceful man, that’s Ted Sturgeon, James Blish, Willy Ley, recently skipped an essay by him, grinny broadly, buoyant, envy, admiration, hope, on every contents page, Untouched By Human Hands, with very close attention, role models, his instant rise to fame, tremendously prolific, tabulated by author, 24 stories, only Philip K. Dick had more with 28, he made it all look so easy, just grace, agility, ingenuity, Henry Kuttner, out of the simplest materials, cleverness, delicacy of touch, trading jokes with my fellow celebrities, no story worth reading ever was easy to write, products of anguished revision, keep up a the job day in and out, a lot fore people today, vunderjar, Seventh Victim, scant 4000 words, turning the familiar upside down, wondrous, the dissonance that gives rise to the plot, the tone will be light, it was undoubtedly the newest thing, compact, uncluttered, efficient, a substance resembling fire, an astonishing hook, they slithered down the mountainside together, a murder mystery?, a science fiction story, socially desirable for men to kill their wives, he will need only 4000 words to do the job, the aliens are puzzled by the intentions, suspense, holding his reader’s interest, the ritual slaughter of wives, most of us, too simple, but what? what!, a calm serious manner, are they moral?, this from a man who has just killed his wife, among the other debaters, hideous aliens, morality is very important, the visitors are so repellent, put them out of their misery, lean sparse style, to the surplus female pen, 2 more pages, the important thing to find out, if it has become apparent yet, the moral beings, we’re back with Gulliver in the land of the Houyhnhnm, the misanthropic Swift, fable, plausibility was not an issue, cunning brains and useful hands, doodle up, a lot of people need to learn this, his world of wifekillers, some convincing rationale, pure exposition, married females lay eggs every day, simply a fact of biology there, the problem of surplus women, polygamy, too intricate, a great nunnery far away, the gentlest possible solution, the grotesque solution, serial polygamy, otherwise excluded, casual unthinking sexism, allowed to reach maturity, married sisters, the next group of wives, meanwhile, the leisure to spend their time in philosophical debate, annoyingly deficient in logic, Heinlein would like this, a splendidly logical system, overenthusiastic slaughter, equilibrium, past mating age, mortal combat, we who subscribe, modern India today, wife-murder, governed by high moral imperative, telling untruths, a host of other evil customs, destroy our way of life, decent and righteous customs, so elegantly constructed, parable so deftly, craftsmanship, light entertainment, inspiring esteem and envy, already a master of his craft, that’s how to write an essay, just crank him out, undertaken a program to do so, secret hidden stuff, seeing it and making it explicitly, making you see stuff, vocab words at least, you need to understand what they’re for and what the teacher wants, if they judge you on your dancing, a better hobby than writing an exercise, group dance, usually about half an hour, a movie review, movies are better than TV shows, reviews Star Trek episodes, some good Next Generation, take notes, The Twilight Zone, you don’t know what you’re getting each time, generally science fiction, a fantasy, a satire, social commentary, quite difficult to watch anthologies back to back to back, find the original stories, look at them in that light, very focused right now, easily distract, tutoring, coffee, Connor, No-Man’s Land by John Buchan, fairy cave men, exciting plans, a chapter in The Way The Future Was by Frederick Pohl, the admirable Pohl, teenage dalliance with communism, Amazing Stories novel, The Space Merchants, a rush job, Kornbluth has sharp teeth, a moderating influence?, sleeping in the stairwells, making us laugh, Search The Sky by Cyril M. Kornbluth and Frederik Pohl, The Advent On Channel 12 by C.M. Kornbluth, cheap server, servers in North Korea, servers on a satellite, what the fuck is this?, he’s really smart and he doesn’t play dumb, Ambrose Bierce, tricky, start with the famous one, also a French one, An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge, Ambrose Bierce is like Mark Twain’s evil brother, he’s still alive!, 1914 to cover the Mexican Revolution, may have got got, see you in cyberspace.

The Split by Richard Stark

Posted by Jesse Willis

Reading, Short And Deep #394 – Hard Sell by Lawrence Block

Reading, Short And Deep

Reading, Short And Deep #394

Eric S. Rabkin and Jesse Willis discuss Hard Sell by Lawrence Block

Here’s a link to a PDF of the story.

Hard Sell was published in Ed McBain’s Mystery Book, No. 1, 1960 (ghost written for Craig Rice).

Posted by Scott D. Danielson Become a Patron!

The SFFaudio Podcast #700 – READALONG: The Door Into Summer by Robert A. Heinlein

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #700 – Jesse, Paul Weimer, Maissa Bessada, Evan Lampe, and Trish E. Matson talk about The Door Into Summer by Robert A. Heinlein.

Talked about on today’s show:
serialized in F&SF, October and December 1956, hardcover 1957, set in 1970s, set in 2000/2001, the cat and the door, isn’t the door supposed to dilate?, Heinlein In Dimension by Alexei Panshin, The Pleasant Profession Of Robert A. Heinlein by Farah Mendlesohn, lucky for Paul, Paul didn’t like it, just the cat parts?, time paradox, time loop, Trish hated it, a cardinal rule, #SIFTP, analysis, horrible indeed, recounting Trish’s shame, supposed to like the main character, Pete rules, Danny boy, pacing, not a struggle to finish, Evan should read all of Heinlein, Evan dug the stuff about domestic labour, a key feature of the conversation about feminism and technology, Philip K. Dick was a technophobe, Nanny, domestic labour devices, the robot’s trying to have sex with your wife, the washing machine, washing day, any liberation from work is good (especially drudgery), still sexism, 1950s America, Evan loved the cat stuff, a love-story about a man and his cat, Pete’s inner life, this little opener, the famous ones, researching, listeners appreciate, other podcasts on Heinlein, even people who hate Heinlein reference him all the time, Our Opinions Are Correct, By His Bootstraps, “All You Zombies”, similar plot, less romance, less something, all about the time loop, even tighter, a long short story, good, fun, and funny, similar structural stuff, a bullshit paper on time travel, loops ensue, Dictor, he a bad man, he also main character, did Heinlein invent time loops or merely perfect them?, finding Heinlein icky, bootstrap paradox, 19th century, outside of science fiction, economics, politics, such a pervasive misunderstanding, something obviously impossible to do, whadontchu do the impossible?, stupid people collecting phrases, the icky factor, engaged with vs. shit all over, squicky?, “grooming”, the stand in for Heinlein (Dan Davis), unfair, overstating, Heinlein still wrote it, he’s pushing her away, “Yes Ricky, that’s what I want”, over-reading, kids as sex objects, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, Hazel, The Rolling Stones, no talking about the show before the show starts, the stand-in for Heinlein is someone else, the nudist is Heinlein, the Japanese Netflix movie, not that bad if you can attune yourself to Japanese aesthetics, “a door you should not go through”, fine, it did the story, the femme fatale, reducing the ickyness, just pining, did what it had to do, it didn’t dwell on the fun stuff, haircuts, stock stuff, women’s labour is not in the movie at all, the world that Heinlein builds up, am I supposed to like the character?, he’s a drunk, he wants to make his tech repairable, right to repair, a bigger issue today than 30 years ago, you’re not supposed to open your own hood, Jesse’s ancient car, other personality qualities, being resentful, being oblivious (for the plot), kinda dumb in some areas, an idiot ball, trusting Miles and Belle, the passion to dive into your work, being his own boss, don’t let other people tell you how to do your job, selling stories, the same scene over and over and over again, “dicker”, sticker, ultimatum, instead of haggling, saying the unstated, the other guy always collapses, a weakness in Heinlein, his second plan, that trick sucks and Jesse hates, it doesn’t work in reality, try and do it today bud, Heinlein has to be an Android guy now, one of the many annoying things Heinlein does, his worlds are constructed by him, there’s always another guy across the street, you have to move to another town, Sears is gone now, all to common situations, helping the businesses stay honest, gas stations, gas prices are always in alignment with each other, working together, a supply issue, independent gas stations, corporate owned, concessions at a movie theatre, booktowns, a wedding district, negotiation logic, interpersonal connections, “how dare you, sir, interrupt my nudist making out session with my wife, I’m going to go nuclear”, in that case we’re best friends, autistic, an all or nothing approach, padding, a mode that he gets into, inane identical conversations, after your 50th Heinlein novel, Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, more evidence Heinlein was always telling you what books to read, he loves Rudyard Kipling, Jesse doesn’t read for character, the world is fantastic, so much going on, France has a king now, Canada ate England, the six weeks nuclear war, the capital is now in Denver, the amount of worldbuilding, nullified by the Japanese movie, 3 years from now, robots that look like people everywhere, iPhone didn’t take over in 2 years, these guys don’t care about the thing Jesse cares about, a Japanese audience, he’s the Time Bride in this situation, zero age difference, schoolgirls in sailor uniforms, oh yeah and we have to have a cat, asking questions and angry about stuff, a robot Pete?, a very bad replacement for the nudists, it made it cute, where did that come from, you’re always late, Dan, bad bad writing, I serve you for five days, have conversations to explain plot, reverse engineer that robot, another convention, avoiding a paradox, the reason, all the podcasts in existence, we’ve done the most on anything (by Heinlein), everybody does Starship Troopers, a number have done The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, a couple have done By His Bootstraps, some have done “All You Zombies”, the movie is not the story, that story is pretty simple, essentially the same, a Heinlein booster, a white nationalist?, learning to drive, there was a door, why is this not a book that sticks in the memory?, so lower on the tier scale, less racist that Farnham’s Freehold, awesome plot work, it feels slight, sentimental works, otherwise slight, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, avoiding that one, a cat is in it, there are cats in it but it isn’t a cat book, flatcats, he loves cats, Pixel, a character Jesse liked, the nudist was funny, nuding it up, do better in 2022?, let the women talk about the women for a little while, little girls have inappropriate crushes, an excuse by pedophiles, go play with somebody your own age, see a psychiatrist, here’s a candy cane, peer appropriate relationship, hypersleep, still wants to marry the same guy, don’t wake me up, she’d rather not exist if she’s not going to be with him, ten years of living without him, he’s not a jerk, oblivious, focused on his work, he can write female characters strong and self sufficent and have brains, a manipulating self-center bitch, a response book, previous time travel books, H.G. Wells’ The Time Machine, When The Sleeper Awakes, the future utopia sometime in the 20th century, the richest man in the world, his light bulb being on, Red Dwarf, engaging with a long tradition, two methods of time travel, shunted out of the plot, a plot device, the cold sleep, a great novel, neglected great writers, Double Indemnity by James M. Cain, a wife who wants to have her husband killed, Walter Neff, while somebody is sleeping, he didn’t jump he was pushed, killing off Dan B. Davis, the Hays Code, slim volumes, so digestible, the motivating plot, the way the book is structured, it starts with a loop, 11 doors in Connecticut, drafting or drinking, back in time, his decision, running around to get the plot happening, Back To The Future 2, he sees himself on stage playing guitar and Chuck Berry phone call, how Heinlein’s a good writer, the car had gone missing, Jesse knew what happened to the car, a mystery, red herrings to distract us from the little clues, chef’s kiss, time travel, not loved when so well done, he invents the Roomba, so many touches, Hired Girl, the hired girl, he can see them in their starkers, as god made them, all confection and lies, assets, competent, the hired girl took over, what’s so interesting about this book, technology at its core, plot vs. tech, the Japanese movie in relief, plasma battery subplot, Heinlein’s saying the opposite, everything’s off the rack, philosophy of engineering, on point, in railroad times you build railroads, loop de loop rollercoaster, the character having interaction with himself, nothing more beautiful than that, “you’re stupid”, I said., arrested for barracking, that zombie drug, sentenced to being zombies, zombie workers killed by its owner, working the implications of the tech, Heinlein at his best, really exploring, he loved Colorado, overrun, expropriated for government use, Los Angeles is a port, he’s not half-assing it, he likes, nudity, Colorado, cats, California, self inserting his own bio, the whole bit with the cars, producing to give people jobs, we’re doing it, cheese caves, in the Japanese adaptation, 32 year old car, you need to be rich to own an old car, to support the Japanese car industry, more iron to make more cars, the domestic market, the Japanese market, immigration, its hard to assimilate, racist or whatever, something they’ve thought a lot about since WWII, how to keep the economy good, a stable economy, trashing five year old cars, Australia is full of Japanese cars, Canada too, right hand drive, insure it at a higher rate, where Heinlein goes the extra step, the fit and finish, no gauges, satire, milk subsidies, a license to have a milk farm, where the government cheese comes from, more cows producing, distortion effects, pop vs. soda, pop is a verb not a noun, Wisconsin is pop country, corn syrup, sugar is cheaper in Canada, corn syrup is cheaper in the states, social commentary, a continuation, his futurism is really good, technology has massive impacts on our lives, real science fiction, useful technology, the right side of this question, make women and men’s lives easier, his own life, tricked out with interesting tech ideas, labour saving, the history of the dishwasher, scrub dishes all day, Jesse is a monster, not a smart dishwasher, I have to pay my servants, after WWII, dishwashers had existed since 1850 but they get hot in 1950, Catharine Beecher, Harriet Beecher Stowe’s sister, A Treatise On Domestic Economy For The Use of Young Ladies at Home and at School, our bastion of power, efficiency expert, scientific management, fordism, talking about the domestic sphere seriously, expanding their own freedom, the natural place for women, sounds scary when you say it, if you’re going to continue the species, off on the hunt, Jesse literally cannot suckle babies, hormone shots, we don’t even have the baby being gestated in side the woman, Lois McMaster Bujold, uterine replicators, Podkayne Of Mars did it first, Bujold does Heinlein better than Heinlein, the domestic labour saving devices, Jesse’s not allowed in his mom’s kitchen, her space to dominate, a room in the house for men, cohabitation rooms, smoking rooms, Trish seething in the background, liberate women from this using tech, drive across or rocket across, Jesse has been talking a long time, Drafting Dan was for himself and for men and women, his inventions were for everybody, Hired Girl helping women, saving household labour, the domestic sphere idea, a woman’s domain, restricting choices is a bad thing for human rights, through husband or father, how people or women thought of it in the 19th century, antebellum reform movements, newspapers, social movements, protests, writing governments, pushing for laws, anti-prostitution, temperance, the anti-slavery movement, women’s anti-slavery societies, it degrades the family, making women sinners, informally not legally married, separate spheres idea, women didn’t have property if they were married, the Temperance Society of Philadelphia, write articles, give speeches, push for laws, a historical rabbit hole, something else that is going to annoy Jesse, the plot is a chef’s kiss, the time machine plot was unnecessary, a wonderful feeling, Riki becoming a brilliant engineer herself, wow she grew up and started the Aladdin rival company, Dan went back in time and did everything else, the challenge, Trish had her female empowerment plot taken away from her, a good thing about that movie, irrelevant to the plot, a better reinterpretation, given how all the female characters were written, intelligent women who do things, too early, without that loop, the loop at the beginning, an alcoholic suddenly, to fix the problem, to get revenge, he’s doing a figure skating thing, that the loop happens, who is Heinlein?, could there have been parallel existences?, Pete died, she grew up, if I did see my name in the paper, it could never have happened that way, the very existence of that line of print, excluded not possibles, a supernatural engineer, the supernatural entity is Heinlein, a beautiful technical execution, why is that scene necessary?, because he was a nudist, an intertime travel love story, Time Bride Isaac Asimov’s November 1983, Gardner Dozois and Jack Dann, Trish is going to love this story, engaging with the minor aspect of the story, many exceptions, spouses in the reverse case, not societialy appropriate, if Edgar Allan Poe had, getting married in Korea, school and study up, more free now, the western standard, the average age, a lot less marriage as well, not some inexplicable quirk, women don’t have to get married to support themselves, older men would have more of it (money), marry off your daughters, women make their own money, marriage is obsolete, as societies developed, incomes are equal, the only reason marriage exists is to control women, traditionally, easy binding contracts, trying to buy a house on your own, marriage contracts for two years, the Islamic world, Shia, Sunni, merchants, a contractual thing, business routes, renewing your drivers license or your car, about insurance, why are insurance companies invovled, The Year Of The Jackpot, related to marriage, 26 working years, make all the right bets, Lifeline, murdered by insurance companies, Time Enough For Love, something Heinlein is thinking about, it fits with the idea, on a track that can’t be changed, a fixed track, that sentimentalness of it, his cat likes him, the reason it is all worth it, now wife and kid, 30 years down the road you can’t have your cat, just have your cats out for the summer, Lockstep by Karl Schroeder, the march of civilization, Cryoburn by Lois McMaster Bujold, investments, can you control and manipulate the world, the bad guys in Neuromancer, Technovelgy [Bill Christensen], technologies in books, Drafting Dan, CAD, Eager Beaver, Flexible Frank, Hired Girl Robot, Radioactive Coding for Checks, Robotic Hand, Waldo, Stasis (Cold Sleep, Hibernation), Thorsen Memory Tube, Computer component that allows a machine to learn through experience. Universal Checkbook, the ATM, Window-Willie, boob tube, a pulp image, glass recycling, transaction fees, the debit card, you can’t believe how expensive it is to clean windows, he invents a lot of the tech in the story, two kinds of science fiction going on at once, the effect of technology on society, a time travel story, Idiocracy (2006), C.M. Kornbluth, the premise for Futurama, a forward going time machine, Flight To Forever by Poul Anderson, the desire to go back, time travel paradoxes, similar to this, Bender’s Big Score, after the first cancellation, Lars is Fry, going back in time, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Data, Star Trek: Voyager, The Orville, billions of years old, Marvin in The Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy, if this is the worst of Heinlein…, is he in the same facility as himself, a lockbox with 16 different keys and locks, leave a letter with a lawyer, Bill And Ted’s Excellent Adventure, time travel role playing games, fade away, Back To The Future (1985), puzzles for the writer and the reader, an intellectual exercise, have the rest of the book blank, the last short story Heinlein ever wrote, a trilogy, a series, Time Enough For Love, The Long Arm Of Gil Hamilton by Larry Niven, cold sleepers, harvest their organs, corpsicles, The Crack In Space by Philip K. Dick, A World Out Of Time, Rammer, hard SF, and noir, a very turgid book, Evan is struggling with, a grade 12 honors seminar, “Science Fiction And Social Issues”, Vulcan’s Hammer, Doctor Futurity, bye Trish!, Solar Lottery, a whole year, five times a week, Alfred Bester, The Roller Coaster, Passengers by Robert Silverberg, it’s certainly something, to palate cleans you, a lot of paranoid men worried their robots are fucking their wives, they’re all so good, the older version of The Time Machine movie, Somewhere In Time (1980), Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour, reverse time bride, not fairly icky to Jesse, Paul found it icky, Maissa thought it had icky aspects, alternate future, he’s wrong everywhere but also dead on in many ways, not because Heinlein loves pervin on the girls, I’m robin the cradle, people age, you get old, Pete dying, Riki aging and seeing the cat again is a super-positive thing, seeing your childhood pet again, preserving their pets just for summers, the whole metaphor is very poetic, necessary, somebody can age faster than someone else, have a bigger baldspot, make him oblivious, if he had to serve a jail sentence or something, prison romance, a reality for a lot of kids, a good ideas movie, The Tomorrow War (2021) with Chris Pratt, Edge Of Tomorrow (2014), you stand with Ukraine, they’re recruiting right now, oh, I’m too old, put up or shut up, family drama, if you really want to explore the idea of time travel, Joe Haldeman’s The Forever War, the wording of it threw it into Creepyville, stop doing that, written in 13 days, the cat initiated it, not another word, bye Paul, the step of actually recording is important, cannot remember it at all, John Buchan’s The Watcher At The Threshold, a dog cart ride, there’s no hunting, they talk about going hunting, the structure of the story, super-deep and super-good, running around town, Evan needs to do the whole run of Heinlein, Civil War, John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Evan is becoming a boomer, he stopped a war, sacrificed his presidency , it makes Evan squee, his great great grandson founded Raytheon, when we are not living under martial law, another novel?, The Hill Of Dreams, Weird Friction, Will wants to do The Sea-Wolf, a lot of hate on twitter, Civ 6, video game logic, he knows Civilization, the headline, Putin Gains Rights To Bases In Donetsk According To Something, the headline buried the lede, implying that Reuters in cahoots with Pfizer, cahoots going on, amongst those cahooters, triggered by stuff, Heinlein wants to be a woman, literal hate, contextualize this stuff, Heinlein is progressive on gender issues, when you look at the 19th century, the progressive position, I think this is a scam, this is a scam, look at and improve student papers, stretching to find things to fix, finding more fake problems, operating in bad faith, control the narrative lest people get the wrong ideas, thinking Fauci is a saint, a holiday in Taiwan, a brutal massacre is now a holiday, Peace Day, remember the horrible past, the dumbest meme I’ve ever made, Putin Rasputin, twitter takes on Ukraine, thanks for your quote tweet asshole, grapple with ideas, it could be seen as mean, people think Evan is mean, emojis, reacting people’s dismissals of old writers, borne of and reflecting worthy new ideas, we don’t have read old books any more, reading Moby-Dick, joking with Connor [Kaye], scoffing at the idea of sensitivity readers, stirring shit just for fun, someone reading over your work, ask a scientist to read your thing, the writer who did the article on sensitivity reader, find and replace, disfigure, somebody is going to be hurt by it, continent sometimes means China in Taiwan, if you’re pro-independence, Columbus discovered China, the China of North America, sensitivity is reading, you can be hurt by words in a book, Chinese lesbians want to fuck their mothers, annoyed, having their feelings hurt, seeing their pain mocked, inner city gangsters, what kind of thoughts do they think, Harlan Ellison wrote juvenile delinquent novels, helping a student write a werewolf story, being in the wilderness, bringing your own experience to the table, if you need to have a gang in your story, writers do hire researchers, Elmore Leonard had a professional researcher, Tishimingo Blues, farb, civil war underwear, a dialogue point, a setting for a crime story, professional divers, the reason Jack London works as a writer, fish police, Yukon, homeless, Korea, boxing, Hemingway, the laptop class, the people who COVID was an inconvenience for, being a professional writer pays nothing, the sensitivity reading pays really well, it sounds mean but is it a lie?, only if you are totally ignorant, insensitive people, is gypsy salami racist?, Thinner is super-racist, Stephen King, is it racist or just a trope, King didn’t even write this, cancel Bachman don’t cancel King, is Bachman a shitlib?, dark but sensible takes, some colleagues are idiots, Putin’s two hour speech, trying to remake the Soviet Union, a pro-Russia guy?, Russia and the Soviet Union are different, why do people have opinions about things they know nothing about, there’s no dissent, Russiagate was bullshit, how did we get here?, being badass, arming civilians, Molotov cocktails, good 20th century vibes, not one step back, there’d be irony in that, if you’re looking for irony Stalin is steel, yellow and blue flags, smoke a cigarette to them, Ghost Of Kyiv, Colonel Tomb, Vietnam, a legend, war propaganda, legendary, like a fake name, Colonel Tomb laughs from his ghostly lair, sniper women, Battle Of Sevastapol, Miss Pavlichenko, Woody Guthrie, Russian soldiers on Tinder, a fifteen minute break, all that catfishing, people get triggered, they don’t deserve their country, Taiwan wont roll over, an sensitivity reader changed Conan Role Playing Game 1st and 2nd editions, mysterious is like inscrutable, ancient is less descriptive, the mail man came vs. the mail carrier came, a doctoress, an aviatrix, mailman vs. mail-carrier, unintended consequences, writing out the caste system, it’s ancient India, role players want to play whatever you want, a black skinned paladin in medieval Europe, Pathfinder, martial arts changed to unarmed, Bruce Lee and kung fu, unarmed combat, making the game more of a board game, a Crom eating barbarian, swordfighting and boxing, copy and replace less badly but for what purpose, that’s just a stereotype, paying attention the writing, mud huts becomes stone buildings, mud is bad, civilized folks don’t live in mud huts, they have to upgrade their buildings, mud is othering, some people live in mud huts, modern homes are “rammed earth” not mud, euphemism treadmill stuff, a generational change, when talking to outsiders, first nations, Squamish, the word is always changing but changing from top down, policers of society, black vs. African American, white south africans who fled South Africa, race vs. ethnicity, both are real in a cultural sense, a black hispanic, coloured, Arab African, Barack Obama, when Joe Rogan got called out again for a nigger video compilation, words that are taboo, do you want to be a whipped dog or use your independence of thought and information coming in currently, bowing to authority vs. being independent of mind, Mark Twain doesn’t need a sensitivity reader for The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn, a profoundly anti-racist book, replacing nigger with robot, Robot Jim, a science fiction story, the gender flipping project, when Conina slays Thoth Amona, your premise is wrong, being offended isn’t being physical hurt, you don’t have the authority to speak about this, you don’t gave the right identity for it, adding questioning, adding bi to their bio as a proof against attack of being white, Evan has seen this documentary, who’s the oppressor here?, maybe she has a skill I’m not great at, The Fable Of The Bees, the worst thing you can do with your money is save it, there’s nothing to buy, travel, going to America every year, The Hill Of Dreams by Arthur Machen.

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The SFFaudio Podcast #693 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: Brother And Sister by Donald E. Westlake

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #693 – Brother And Sister by Donald E. Westlake – read by Evan Lampe. This is a complete and unabridged reading of novel (3 hours 25 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants include Jesse, Paul Weimer, Evan Lampe, and Trent Reynolds

Talked about on today’s show:
The Violent World Of Parker blog, Hard Case Crime, Call Me A Cab, a novella in Redbook, the RARA AVIS forums, Memory, many years later, when blogs died, Google murdered blogs, search blogs, authoritative sources, Redbook magazine, [1979], a new coffee maker and Hard Case Crime, sitting around reading Donald E. Westlake, the low point of his writing career, how many characters, Paul, Angie, Bob, the uncle and the aunt, and the guy he decks, and the base commander, and a cop, and the neighbourwoman, Dancing Aztec has 50-60 characters, 3 and a half ours, there to fill a function, write me an incest book, he writes what he knows, baffled, Gorky Park by Martin Cruz Smith, funnier in concept than it is in execution, a cannibal book, hitting the checkpoints, the early lesbian and gay books, they have to kill themselves at the end, suicide murder, driven mad, smiling into the void, Lovecraftian, The Loved Dead by C.M. Eddy, a serial necophile, more bedmates, this has no laughs, an interesting artifact of the industry, Paul Westlake, did you name your son after this character?, 1961, was Westlake Catholic?, a popular choice for Catholics, Angela, the water in which they swim, the uncle was James, not a lot of creativity, Westlake’s official website, A tender compassionate novel of incestuous love, Edwin West, first publication anywhere, a handsome old man smokin a cigarette, you’re in the drug store getting your paperbacks and condoms, it all began innocently enough, the cruel unfeeling world, marriage to a prostitute, the artifact, did he marry an Austrian, Evan’s Austrian accent for Ingrid, innocent but exciting, like people possessed, the horrible guilt came later, Monarch Books, Inc., who is the audience for this book, a lot more people than are willing to admit, redtube and pornhub, step-family, a porno joke, i need to do some larping, a taboo that’s only in humans?, do dogs have taboos?, look at bonobos and chimpanzees, Incest Among The Apes by Paul Weimer, monogamy, polygenous, Paul’s research, recessive traits vs. mutations, hemophilia, sickle cell anemia, frisson, evolutionary and cultural history, broadening the incest taboo, Cleopatra’s family and the royal family of Hawaii, Chinese incest, tribute princesses, the Manchus, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000), “I’m pure blood”, of all the sleaze books, shoplifted quite a bit, checking on the listenership, he just has to do the job, some interesting things going on, it’s about the house, a property book, virginity issues, obsession with home ownership, an unlikeable character, physically abusive, a good depiction of his soul, a rebound relationship, feeling weird, over-reading, how boring her boyfriend Bob is, so boring, siblings are boring, leave the house and find some strange, find some nice Austrian lady, not very many positives, major life changes, the ring of the familiar, not a good edge, the emotional circumstances, a little too comfortable, how to construct a terrible book, the aunt who is comforting and the uncle is threatening, the funeral, isolated, tell Stella about my new boyfriend my brother, pick up sticks, Dain, three? sex scenes, we’re gonna be married soon, what makes a marriage formal, not consummated, doesn’t count, annulment, Maury Povich styles shows, Phil Donahue was classy, Morton Downey Junior, Jerry Springer, Povich is teaching, lesbian sex among co-eds in Greenwich Village by Dr. Lawrence Block, sandwiched, wife has sex with the family dog, Strange Tales From A Chinese Studio, Carnal Prayer Mat, as long as he ends up dead or ruined, don’t cheat on your loved ones, don’t pay a hooker with a personal cheque, our love cannot be denied!, a baby having two heads, two dudes who are gay for each other and they’re brothers, teratogenic incest baby, homosexual incest taboos, my husband is now my wife, why are the people doing this?, education + attention, this book exists, a market, the neighbours don’t know, The Lurking Fear by H.P. Lovecraft, The X-Files episode Home, the Peacock family, Weird Tales exoticism, peacock kings, real estate porn, your side plot is arguing over a deed, Western, lets talk to a lawyer, Westlake is really into insurance, The Risk Profession, a science fiction story about insurance, Somebody Owes Me Money, such a good book, murder mystery, the dad in that book, comparing different insurance plans, based on Westlake’s own life, The Green Eagle Score, To Catch A Thief (1955), insurance is the opposite of gambling, related to gambling, if you’re living in the states right now, Westlake’s upbringing, sitting around thinking about what things are like, the Red Cross stuff, a non-incest sex scene, easy ladies, engaging with the Red Cross, why is there this fight over the deed?, debts extinguishing with the death of the father, there’s no talk about a will, the office and lawyer stuff, an episode of The Saint written by Terry Nation, an allegory for Vietnam, the opposite of an allegory (a formula), returning the drugstore with a used incest book, he did a professional job, self-publishing on Amazon, the pornhub thing, the incest stepsister fantasy, available for anonymous download, Westlake is the sale, nobody at the time knew, technically crimes, incest and deed fraud, Subterranean Press, Honey Girls, Sin Hellcat by Donald E. Westlake and Lawrence Block, Folio Society, heresy, drink your champagne, lovingly see the typeface, you’re in the drugstore, you’ve got your sister at home, French ticklers, French packets [letters], WHAT MANNER OF LOVE?, “we could go away to some other city, Paul”, ravaged, empty terror, playing bit-parts in Summerstock, Campus Doll, Young And Innocent, the Grofield books, a half-handful of stories actually about insurance, the entire American welfare state is employer paid insurance schemes, writing at the peak of the welfare state, the insurance companies are a scam now, where Jesse lives, auto-insurance, the “socialist” government, less fighting in courts, mandatory insurance for drivers, nofault insurance, there’s no competition, the shitty health care we have (in British Columbia), everybody gets the same health insurance, when you’re pooling like that, getting your vaccine, “safe and effective”, there are effects, mnra vaccines, the hospital didn’t bankrupt Jesse, scam insurance, Westlake is thinking deeply (kind of his job), don’t sleep with your sister, we need an asshole character, pretty good book for a terrible book, the premise is what sells it, genres or tropes?, Angie doesn’t worried about getting pregnant very much, birth control is not mentioned, Paul opened the drawer of the nightstand and opened a Trojan, a weird reading experience, what a twit you are, other methods, there’s no vagina even mentioned, very tame, we’re never going to get as explicit as “she put in her diaphragm”, hang on bro, spermicidal jelly, The Naked Director, accidentally invents the facial, technically a birth control measure, boobs and nipples and curves, very tame, pornography inflation, women at the used bookstore with 30 romance novels, what is the appeal of these things, romance brain is super strong, Harlequin Romances, trying to sell romance novels, characters have sex but mostly incidents leading up to it, immature, exhausted what little there was, Evan’s narration, the cops were coming all the time, the garbage trucks came to get this book, process, Prince Snake Lady, Mr. Adam by Pat Frank, three chapters a day for a week, more of the German girlfriend, a much better book: if she had showed up again…, Angie has nothing, Bob is the best character, waste a bullet, make it a Lovecraftian story, just add a little mindswap, The Thing On The Doorstep by H.P. Lovecraft, confluence of the ley lines, horror, The Green Eagle Score by Richard Stark, military policeman, Dortmunder beer, he’s not a dumb guy, this guy is thinking about things, drafted into the army, being in a socialist system (the army and the airforce), the universal army, Fredric Jameson, bureaucratization of problems, Tucker Coe, Samuel Holt, 105 absolutely known, smut books, short stories, Mitch Tobin, I Know A Trick Or Two, the worst book, protecting ourselves from the accusations of liking , no heavy petting no penetration, a kissing book, Make Out Point, early Stephen King, Carrie, paradise by the dashboard lights, car culture, Italy, Taiwan, hourly rate hotels, a nap, you live with your parents even if you’re married, marginal phenomena, always step, the Japanese pron is straight sister stuff, the taboo is stronger in Japan, lesbian books, why you have hotel rates, your sister’s in the next room, a flourishing ebook market on Amazon for brother sister books, reading audiobook erotica, what people do for money, we don’t live in a communal society, the commercial aspect, the erotica business, drawing the line at incest, next week its cannibalism, other taboos, necrophilia, Pity Me! by Bertha Russell (age 15), The Loved Dead by C.M. Eddy, antagonist vs. loving, Julia Morgan (Morgan Scorpion), is it Evan with his smoking is it Paul with his guilt, Paul Bishop, somewhere in San Fransisco…, Take The Money & Run, westerns, mysteries, Jack London seems to have invented frontier fiction, see life in the raw, claim jumping, western adjacent, Les Savage, Max Brand, Zane Grey, Louis L’Amour, A Princess Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs, Outland (1981) is High Noon (1952) in space, Moon Zero Two (1969), hard SF, a spectacular failure, acoustic panels.

MONARCH BOOKS - Brother And Sister by Donald E. Westlake (1961) - illustration by Harry Schaare

MONARCH BOOKS - Brother And Sister by Donald E. Westlake (1961) BACK COVER5

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The SFFaudio Podcast #618 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Risk Profession by Donald E. Westlake

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #618 – The Risk Profession by Donald E. Westlake; read by Gregg Margarite (for LibriVox.org). This is an unabridged reading of the short story (1 hour 4 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Paul Weimer, and Maissa Bessada, and Will Emmons

Talked about on today’s show:
authors like Westlake, seeing the ending coming, Amazing, March 1961, which ending?, a cynical person, when you’re a lawyer…, lawyer brain, ruining your enjoyment?, you feel smart, reading mysteries, ahead of the curve, forgetting the ending every time, a double twist ending, Westlake is amazing, his most Amazing story, he doesn’t like his boss but he puts up with him, fire and theft in New York, space missions, a meta-story, Westlake’s career, a crime story, a locked room mystery, a series, he could easily lose all the money, a triple twist ending, there could have been!, planned all along, contingency plans for everything, he was planning this forever, cleverer than they knew, the worldbuilding, this could have been published in Alfred Hitchcock’s Mystery Magazine, Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine, they don’t seem to have the internet, real last name, Ab and Jafe and Ged, an Expanse story, space stations around Earth, a colony on Luna, a gold rush story, The Expanse, what’s driving this?, brilliant people going out to make their money, Jesse can explain it all, they shrivel up, not mostly Australians, mostly Americans, obsessed with the country in which he lives, The Spy In The Elevator, the theme about government, a hands-off government, the Double RP deal, uninsurables, very rapacious capitalism, definitely his signature, handwriting analysis is not as robust as people want it to be, a part of our toolkit, he actually did sign it, this retirement plan, cash return form, well…there’s a law, they wouldn’t give money if they didn’t have to, the corruption somehow didn’t work that day, the insurance lobby, an insurance investigator, a hidden theme, Evan Lampe’s podcast on Philip K. Dick, Philip K. Dick is obsessed with the frontier, Lovecraft: forgetting and the sea, Westlake is obsessed with insurance, Somebody Owes Me Money, a nephew novel, this weird phenomenon, characterization, the best insurance policy, it seems like if I go with this plan…, why is this in here?, calling Paul Westlake up, his first published story as a professional, government is insurance, helping me not worry about stuff, what taxes are insurance payments, health care, car insurance, the army, in tight alliance with our neighbours, what the RCMP is for, thinking of government as insurance, we have to defend this, Corona virus, starving to death, that payment is insurance, keeping the system stable, an evil universe, anybody who cheats on their CERB is going to be investigated, UBI, telling the company being afraid of its boss, an insight into a terrible, who is the government an insurance policy for?, insurance for the employers, the primary beneficiaries are the stock owners, the WE fake charity, speaking fees, a $14,000 vacation for a minister, if the stockholders are not the general public then they are working for a subset of them, the cynicism is not the focus, an Agatha Christie style locked-room mystery, if it was the government…, the last book, Anarchaos, the absence of insurance companies, a possibility of taking your crime with you, government ideas, ethics, if he wasn’t so greedy, he wouldn’t have gotten away with it, that Scooby Doo ending, alive and in France, they all look exactly the same, Atronics, Chemisant, Ludlum, they sound like things we would get, company towns, how it worked in Anarchaos, Vicco, Kentucky, a ghost town called IOCO (Imperial Oil Company), all the way from Trinidad?, Alcan, through the panama canal, that’s where the power is, if the company goes out of business, those fly-over states, bringing mining back, northern Minnesota, Westlake is incredibly subtle, if you look for the signs, standout lines, there he is, he’s kind of a ghost, the description of the boss and his hands, always smooth, skepticism, the spaceship west of Cairo, the good ship Demeter, g-sickness pills, I was as sick as a dog, as depressing as Turkish bath with all the lights on, a welder’s practice range, a transparent dome would have been more fun, cheap iron, polishing his own spacesuit’s inside, debris, shit orbiting earth, paint chips, some physics problems, jollier, scooters and tuggers, industry troopers, capitalism, the winners of capitalism, square corners painted olive drab, International Atronics Incorporated, high wages, how do you make a vacuum tube?, the tech of the now, he’s putting it in your hand, dribbled down the elevator, the opening of Anarchaos, a milk run, other adventures, Martians, alien insurrections, you don’t even notice, Westlake has opted out, high school, air-force, a Snow top, a white helmeted MP, a set of background for his writing career, hints as to what was striking him, The Man With The Getaway Face by Richard Stark, plastic surgery, Will needs to read that book, falling in love with the author, the driver was an ex-communist party enforcer, Parker was in WWII, be a thief, Westlake started in law enforcement, healthcare, hunger, being in the army is being in a socialist state, he’s a cop in a socialist state, your health insurance, your housing, most people never think about it, Westlake is some kind of weird intellectual, his only way to make a living is to tell people lies, the more interesting your lies are the better your living, my god this is good!, psycho-analyzing his own thing, there’s some substance to it, Tomorrow’s Crimes, the closest to a crime story, a philosopher of crime, he got a lot of letters from prison, prisoners loved his crime books, rats, pulling the perfect job is amazing, once you can’t turn to the cops for help you’re always on his own, he can’t trust his partners, he murders the taxi-man, he’s here to enact his power fantasy in a libertarian state, yay!, a funny way of thinking of what he’s doing, how do you survive in the 20th century?, why would he leave SF?, not financially viable, series is where the money is, science fiction is kind of the opposite of series, its finished, Melinda Snodgrass, fulfilling a role were; not supposed to have, science fiction can be applied to any literary genre, Isaac Asimov, Alfred Hitchcock’s Mystery Magazine, we know him from his SF, movies, a tonne of crime, a mystery set in a science fiction universe, I can make the rules, The Caves Of Steel, people don’t go outside, The Hole Man by Larry Niven, Paul’s theory of mysteries, a fair mystery, there’s two suits sitting there, he red-herring’d it, polished his silvered faceplate visor, where the whole thing started, built the whole story around the image, gold in the NASA suits, gold vs. silver, 30 pieces of silver, a different Adams, a lot of domes, the scooters are domes, the asteroid city dome, Finder by Suzanne Palmer, an Apollo Program, understatement, its egg shaped body, green, very army, “the windshield” translucency, floating forever, foreshadowing, we’re him, our hero Jed, he took so long to come home, Will’s a little acquisitive, really empathizing with this story, giant pile of metal, an intellectual exercise, you’re feeling like the guy, Will’s a little bit different than Jesse, an office job, petty bourgeois technician, a life of quiet desperation, Fight Club, breaking his own identity, identity switching, A Bullet For Cinderella, the cultural universe it comes out of, John D. MacDonald, we should eventually do all of the Westlake novels, The Green Eagle Score, the titles run in streaks, Parker robs an air force base, army guys, that rock concert sure is loud, think of all the money from the concessions, scores, a couple of decades between books, see the pattern?, he’s just being playful, he’s a hunter, then he becomes a shark, eventually he gets married, just keep me in flowers and champagne, they start getting silly, he’s got a real sense of humour, cuz sharks don’t laugh at jokes, funny doings, isnights into a person’s character by reading essentially throwaway stories, different from making a movie or a TV show, one person generally, a sense of through-line, wouldn’t you rather know what H. Rider Haggard was thinking than some adaptation of his novel?, too ponderous, Edgar Rice Burroughs, limited success, the way Frankenstein movies gets Frankenstein so wrong, the smartest man who ever lived, I Tarzan you Jane, “Fire bad” vs. soliloquy, learned to speak and read through a crack in a wall, you can’t see those hand gestures, those wry lines, all these flavours of cocktails, bitter but also delicious, rye, very fluffy, it feels so fluffy, so good!, reading Lester Del Rey, so hamfistedly bad, he’ll get you drunk you don’t even know you’re drinking, terribly clunky, For I Am A Jealous People by Lester Del Rey, he’s good at lifting, The Faithful, Reading, Short And Deep, uplifted dogs, dog pilots with surgically altered hands, the last man has died, a very Will story, uplifted gorillas, so badly written, that’s kinda super-racist right there, so hamfisted, a green and lovely world, Man’s creation, worship the memory, Who Can Replace A Man by Brian Aldiss, The Island Of Doctor Moreau by H.G. Wells, WWI, Lester Del Rey is making moves, here’s four more 10 hour novels, Planet Of The Apes by Pierre Boulle, City by Clifford Simak, Desertion by Clifford Simak, Cemetery World, animal stuff, we go sideways, this is a dog man, James Powell, 130 stories, A Dirge For Clowntown, Inspector Bozo, a world worry down on his luck aging clown detective, a clown police procedural in a clown universe, his clown wife, the clowns are the white people, the other race is the mimes, mime on mine violence, Discworld novels, not a fantasist in a normal sense, its just so weird, its its own literary thing, The Code Of The Poodles, episode 81, humorous fantasy crime, The Friends Of Hector Jouvet, A Pocketful Of Noses, a unique voice, Ed Wood, pre-everybody.

The Risk Profession by Donald E. Westlake

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