Jesse, Paul Weimer, Scott Danielson, Trish E. Matson, and Jonathan Weichsel talk about Ill Met In Lankhmar by Fritz Leiber
Talked about on today’s show:
F&SF, 1970, the first story comes forty years later, almost 50 years, Cora’s article, a huge span of time, friend of the podcast, Flame And Crimson by Bryan Murphy, a couple of decades off, revived later, a friend by cooreespondence, role playing by letters, amazingly common, Patricia Reid and whatsername, reprints in books, a response to what’s going on in Weird Tales, Conan, super-coszy Conan, a Conaesque setting, cozy, how rich the world is, Mouser’s girlfriend, silk, an ermine wrap, a snowserpent fur stole, wizard’s familiar, half earthstuff and Nehwon, not meant to be read with your mouth, read with your eyes, inspired by years and years, defining cozy, opposition to hardboiled, tough detective in a seedy city, Lawrence Block’s burglar books vs. the Scudder books, Agatha Christie precedes , Lillian Jackson Braun, too cozy, this has both, a hardboiled ending, nice cozy setting, all dying of lung cancer, London fog, the geography is well stated, the lowlands, Doggerland, northern barbarian, southern guy, supposed to be their first adventure, archetypes, Swords And Deviltry, The Snow Woman, one of the many many public domain ones, finding a narrator, not told in order, filling in the corners, the comic, there’s a lot, at least double Robert E. Howard Conan stories, The Circle Curse, The Bleak Shores, wandering in the wilderness, drill down into the geography and the story, by the time we get to this, cursing to their respective gods, read and loved Conan, Lovecraft’s letters to Clark Ashton Smith, playing a game of role playing as if they’re wizards, an almost impenetrable poem, a letter written inside of the book, what the referent was, here’s a book that we could have written, two of the gods in this universe, seven eyes vs. no eyes, split Conan up into two, northern barbarian vs. Shadizar thief, Robert E. Howard seems to hate magic, oh this again, a little more than a little more, ooh magic that’s that scary stuff, physically taxing, this magic of the world, fun characters, funhouse mirrors of each other, the city, the setting, as rich as the characterization, the archetypal fantasy city of Dungeons & Dragons, Sherlock Holmes stories, The Red Headed League, The Man With The Twisted Lip, thrown in jail for murdering himself, a gentleman’s salary, enriching the underworld, he’s brought the underworld to the surface, really do the lords run the city, cultivating their thievery, come and pluck it again, Zamboula, not as good as this, more muscular and beautiful prose, better characterization of the characters and the world, a city boy, he loves this horrible place, the beggars guild, the thieves guild, Alexander Dumas, Charles Dickens, Oliver Twist, Tim Powers, girlfriend wants revenge, appear gallant, impress my new boyfriend, she’s the cause of the doom, murdered in one of their homes, not killing mongoose, not killing the thieves, a hardness, reading this the wrong way, reading short stories symbolically, how it was encoded, a miniature, the home that the Mouser has made, the whole thing’s rotting, the carpet thief and the rug merchant and the candle plucker, a fairy world to keep his fairy in, she’s was actually much harder than he wanted her to be, shrewdness and cynicism, coddling, her father’s torture chamber, knows more than his protagonists do, writing women with limited roles, what women get to do and don’t get to do, had to go a certain way, almost inevitable that the women get fridged, some alternative thing, disgusted with their drunken revels, more forgivable, known chronology, which would be a better story?, a joke ending, the harder ending, the men don’t come off to well, drunk all the time, their decision making, the deftness and dexterity, very Dungeons & Dragonsy, pre-D&D, Gygax was pulling on stuff, an Appendix N story, this is the good ones, transcribing a D&D campaign, the DM and the player, when the saving throws fail, in a spectacularly heroic way, epic, comic irony, thieves and counter-thieves, all about corruption, papering over the floors, by spreading the weight and money around the corruption seems lessened, all these rats, super-rich, every tunnel has a story, every sewer, the way the pillars are constructed, the armoured car attack, the peripheral hirelings, basically a perfect story for what it’s doing, not a footfault, two hours and fifty minutes, half of a Tor double, won the Hugo for the previous year, Ship Of Shadows, science fictiony psychological, a talking cat and werewolves, Clifford Simaky, pretending to be statues, pretending to be blind, more realistic as beggars, levels of irony, embracing, making the movie Chinatown cozy, guild beggars, my sacred butt, grown folk go blind, mindful of things as they really are, talking about readers as well, rooting for these thieves, they kill a 10 year old, that’s fine, plunging his named sword into the kid, that’s good writing, the level of description, the last year of Lovecraft’s life, one big long description, all the doors are open, missing in modern fiction, beautiful description of a rotting corpse, a big sprawling mess, dim alley, 70s batman comics, make Arkham, corrupt, the original Batman, big into Batman in the 1970s, sinking into a swamp, that richness of description, the destruction, quasi medieval city, ringing its firebell, burning down a district of the city, purify it, these are not heroes, counter-thieves, outside the union guys, a labour story, too corrupt, everything is corrupt in this world, all the thieves in Lankhmar are homegrown, the Conan excuse, The Tower Of The Elephant, I’m a Cimmerian I can climb stuff, pot-bellied master thief, team-up and immediately killed, there’s never a story where you see another character return, Valeria, Belit, to come back, it’s a team-up, two heroes, Green Arrow and Batman teaming up, a team-up issue, Green Arrow and Green Lantern, the instinct people want to go with, Conan, even Kull has Brule the Spear-Slayer, always alone in the end, even the the girls are dead and they swore off the city of Lankhmar, fate that these two guys are together, instantly recognize each-other, same weird plans, thinking about each other, a bromance, big fans, Savage Sword Of Conan, the letters column, Harry Fischer, best thing to be a thief, came up with that plan independently, very silly, had the author chosen a different pair, Fissif and Slavas, working within the system, he likes being afraid, they love their work, being in this gang is cool, not to home of nagging wife and squealing child, enough effort into creating the other characters too, the wizarding stuff, pouring on the wizard, put a knife between his shoulder-blades, inner thoughts of the wizard, horrified by his clubhands, magic has a cost, ableism, other signs, revulsed by it, revolted by what he does not how his hands look, parallel this with a Guy de Maupassant style figure wracked by syphilis, this is the cost of sexing around, the cost of magic in this world is yet another of the corruptions, damaged by her hatred, that that’s what caused her death, the only thing that’s pure and nice is the friendship of our heroes, climbing into a rathole and making it cozy, withering your arm etc., not mention it, all the good things in here, the agency that the women have, the world is different in the 1970s, not-super-sexist, disgusting ableism, sacrificing body parts for the power of magic, people have different ideas, birth defect, high level spells cost you, a duel with a wizard, a wizard-off, a lighting spell, Mouser knows, he grounded himself, pretty clever, one’s better with language, strong and quick, they have the same stats in different places, the character sheets, slightly higher constitution, same wise, dexterity 18, human maximum, you could predict this, Gygax’s numbers, three stories into book 2, Jonathan Davis was the narrator, the art for the audiobook sucks, the best sword and sorcery stories, C.L. Moore’s Jirel of Joiry stories, back into blogs again, the last story in the book, he’s filling in the corners, a hobbit’s second breakfast, Fantastic, Brian Murphy’s list, order of publication, Eric Brighteyes by H. Rider Haggard, She, The Sword Of Welleran, The Ship Of Ishtar by A. Merritt, Tolkien before Tolkien, Dwellers In The Mirage, inter-war writers, so many like that, The Moon Pool, the Munsey magazines, hard to generate interest, what is that Lovecraft thing?, the Conan movie, for this group, reprint series, rekicked back into gear, Seven Footprints To Satan, a silent movie, captive in a mansion, gambling, giant stairway, giant metaphor for the stockmarket crash, 97 pages, Creep, Shadow!, A Good Story Is Hard To Find podcast, incredible Virgil Finlay art, The Woman In The Wood, How We Found Circe, The Shadow Kingdom, The Tower Of The Elephant, Beyond The Black River, Red Nails, tortured by his apprentice for hundreds of years, The Threepenny Opera, Bertolt Brecht, an adaptation of The Beggar’s Opera, an organization, the Thieves’ World books, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, secret societies, literally underground, the smoke and the backstory for why everybody wears black and grey, so cosy, one Trish would like to live in, do you want to play the Lankhmar open world, a new startup for an open Thieves World, in an ironic way, a little post-modern, how ironic it would be if, the same way that killing that kid is fine, I gotta little crazy and I killed a 10 year old, so artificial, not even a hint this is 10,000 years ago, definitely not Earth, a secondary world, so secondary, Denethor seems to be going on and on about something, I don’t want to be a Boromir, no messages taken, when you read Conan, Howard has a hobby horse, an idea he’s dealing with, secondary world creation for fun, don’t get roaring drunk, don’t make promises you’re going to regret, corked jugs, get drunk is the message, follow the Persian custom, they don’t actually eat anything, wine fortified with brandy, small beer splashing, wine spritzer, dainty, order a Gray Mouser on, The Tale Of Satampra Zeiros by Clark Ashton Smith, Jason Thompson’s adaptation to comics, actually tentacles, sexy tentacles, Cora Buhlert’s essay Black God’s Shadow: Or Overcoming Trauma As A Core Theme Of Sword And Sorcery, a really good essay, lost his wife, so relatable, gloomy and depressing, the end of Red Nails, they’re just starting their lives, gloomy Guses, gigantic melancholics and gigantic mirth, emotionally powerful, Luke Burrage is getting tired of reading squeecore and torwave books, heists and trauma, consolation, there are other girlfriends, a whole world of adventure to be had, drink you latte and pet a cat, cosy to hardboiled, experience this noir things, sad and happy, Judgement Night, a princess in a warrior society, a woman for one night, pleasure planet, pleasure moon, loves the enemy now, a very C.L. Moore thing, very romantic, a little Campbell, less poetic and flowery, different themed rooms, chasing him through the planet, destroying all these romantic rooms, going up in dust, Dragon Moon by Henry Kuttner, not as mean as Bester, pretty mean, Fury, a dome beneath the surface of Venus, a totalitarian society, Stefan Rudnicki narrating, 27 pages and took the cover, inside has interior art by Hannes Bok, Atlantis, princess, viking dude, a dragon, the Wild Hunt, a quote from G.K. Chesterton, Rudyard Kipling, named chapters, we need to get an audiobook of that done, a novella or novelette, spread it around, Liane The Wayfarer by Jack Vance, Dying Earth, Poul Anderson, The Tale Of Hauk, The Broken Sword, Melnibone, The Dreaming City, Sailor On The Seas Of Fate, Bazarr Of The Bizarre, opens with a snowball fight, Frost Giant’s Daughter lacks snowball fights and skiing, the wrapping, well met, a rotten thing you carpet over and wrap it in silks, oh, right, gloomy and bad, the phraseology, Fantastic Stories Of Imagination, people loved illustrating these stories, prelims, how about this for the cover?, Robert E. Howard illustration, 10,000 people painting Conan, few Solomon Kane, lots of Red Sonja, even the rejects are amazing, a walking statue, the rejected cover, the very first story?, Adept’s Gambit, Karl Edward Wagner, a darker version of Conan, medieval England, a werewolf story, Two Sought Adventure, first one wrote, two left, David Drake, Imaro by Charles Saunders, first book was shitcanned by the publisher, Conan in Africa, 11 hours 33 minutes, with introduction by Charles de Lint, a third of the way through the list, writing that book, taken up by that, ages ago, an RSS feed that works, a keyboard that came out in 2015, watch youtube videos on it, a clock, an RSS catcher built into the keyboard, subscriptions, it was wiped out, I was there, Gandalf, substack is doing its best, what we really want is RSS back, they tend not to get supported, patiently waiting for Paul to start a Substack, problems with the owners of Substack, happily disconnected, next evolution of blogging, it was pointed out that neo-Nazis were using it, TERFs and other fun people, donates money to holocaust deniers, how do we get away from owners?, google dominates but it doesn’t own email, torrents, Cory Doctorow just wrote a book about that sort of thing, The Internet Con: How To Seize The Means Of Computation, plugs are good, Saber And Shadow by S.M. Stirling and Shirley Meier, a gender flipped Ill Met In Lankhmar, neither lady has pants, long sleeved tunics and no pants, they’re into each other, corruption comes from the top, unpleasant fanatics that don’t mind killing many many people, the nobles are corrupt, Earth many millennia later, homeless wanderers, red maned, just so we know, a creature of knives and magic, no ebook or audiobook, Discworld, Terry Pratchett, other comps, Scott Lynch’s The Lies Of Locke Lamora, felt like a YA, The Hammer And The Blade by Paul S. Kemp, a fixup, Scylla’s Daughter, now it is all novels, if you’re in fantasy and science fiction conversations, Heroic Fantasy Quarterly, a quarterly blog, Tales From The Magician’s Skull, Goodman Games, they exist, people who buy things on Amazon, it needs physical distribution, Sword And Sorcery Magazine, September 2023, New Edge, a lot of places to read it, was sword & sorcery ever mainstream?, when Howard was writing, Fight Stories, Top-Notch, Action Stories, DAW books, very geeky, offshoot of psychedelic and heavy metal culture, most people don’t read any books, Readers Digest Condensed books, Michael Crichton, Nora Roberts, books need trimming, the movies were huge, theatrical to video, Xena and Hercules, gotta prep, you can talk all your Jesse talks to much talk.
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