Reading, Short And Deep #474
Eric S. Rabkin and Jesse Willis discuss The Wreck That Re-Reckoned by Don Mark Lemon
Here’s a link to the story |PDF|.
The Wreck That Re-Reckoned was first published in The Scrap Book, April 1906.
Posted by Scott D. Danielson Become a Patron!
The SFFaudio Podcast #828 – Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson, read by Mark F. Smith for (LibriVox). This is a complete and unabridged audiobook (7 hours 22 minutes), followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse and Alex (Pulpcovers)
Talked about on today’s show:
is this the best or one of the best openings for a mystery adventure story?, not a misplaced word, hits the ground running, in media res, you’re probably wondering how I got here, I’m a boy, the old pirate shows up, scares everybody, a magazine publication, each chapter has something going on, not super episodic, continually exciting, quibble with things later, nothing in this book is bad, in terms of an opening, quality of homeiness and call to adventure, The Hobbit, the more you look at it the more stupid it gets, exactly that feeling, the backstory, who is this pirate?, the one legged man, cove that’s out of the way, the stories that he’s telling in the tavern, deleted from Treasure Planet (2002), not bad, circle back, the father, he never gets adapted, it’s important, the whole particulars, the bearings of the island, 17 blank blank, when my father kept, saber-cut, the father dies during the stay, we don’t know a whole lot about him, will not confront, the huge bill that keeps piling up, Jim Hawkins will confront him every month, quite dire, took on someone else’s fears, turns him into a spy, steams his nose, anger and fearsomeness, will always pay, so awesome, way superior, the backstory in The Hobbit, a dwarf kingdom that needs reliberation, a character that’s drawn in a backstory mystery, live a quiet life, a Heinleinian style hero, his mom seems fine, there’s something wrong with his dad, my dad is broken, fairly timid, dies right before the actual leaving, before the tavern gets trashed, adventurous company, why Jim goes, allows him to go out, just gonna leave your mom?, so central to the experience of the book, this Long John Silver character, surrogate uncle/father figure, the thing that makes this a legendary s-tier book, the relationship, highly competent (sort of), good hearted/mean hearted, an interesting character, sympathies, Ben Gunn, Captain Smollett, such a great guy, its something like a Heinlein juvenile, the Disney one, an adaptation highlights, a gender flip, not a lot of women in this book, a little romance, side romance, the parrot, Captain Flint, an alien, Aladdin (1992), clockpunk?, super radical space surfing, the father left the mother, why the cyborg (instead of the one legged man), very huggy in the film, they’re more like this is a man I can model myself on/against, a great example, of goodness and evil, adds resentment, they burn down his farm, sense of intrigue, adventure and wealth, draw ourselves into, Bilbo Baggins or any Heinlein juvenile character, attracting you into the book, even the backstory, the old sea-song, there’s a map, Long John Silver, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum, the black spot, x-marks the spot, re-used throughout the book, a reminder of the plot, The Cannonball Run (1981), what the plot is, sailing towards that destination, the apple barrel scene, very Mark Twain, Huckleberry Finn, becomes the hero, the speeder run in The Phantom Menace, a thing to do, chariot racer, in the coracle, spike the guns, cut the line, reverses, a lot of stuff to do in an almost plausible way, a dumb idea, he’s not a superhero, doesn’t have midichlorians, bumbles his way through it, his plan is screwed from the very beginning, a very good evil plan, they’re already planning to kill us, hold the pirates together, who’s going to be captain, highly influential, Survivor, tiki-stuff, every single pirate story owes 75% of its DNA, the other 24 percent is Peter Pan, direct references, you loved Treasure Island, now you’re talking about the prequel Black Sails, they really need to leave the island, Flint And Silver by John Drake, a trilogy, ship’s full of loot, more treasure, killing his own men, Flint is the ghost that looms over this book, an impression, poor Ben Gunn, ghosts not having shadows, lets the pirates be evil, real pirates, straight up murders a couple of people, something that goes unaddressed, pirate readings, the main audience for this, a general interest magazine, children’s literature, a YA, back to The Hobbit, a bedtime story, in this book the adultness comes from those scenes of murder, extremis, political comments, set in the 1700s, they have a clock in their inn, fought at some battle, 1750s, after the Golden Age Of Piracy, the pirating is done, came back looking for treasure, any of these adventure movies, Marky Mark gets a giant helicopter, pulling caravels out of caves, Uncharted (2022), Indiana Jones movies, Nazis, basic result, party now, generating sympathy, reading a book, not an actual book, a hologram, what’s wrong with the film, fudging this idea of space adventure with the original Treasure Island, commit to the future bit, retired bad ass criminals, Inception (2010), Iraq War, Geroge Clooney, Three Kings (1999), old pirate tech, ai prompt for with if Heinlein wrote this: “please rewrite TREASURE ISLAND as if it was written by Robert A. Heinlein, in the style of BETWEEN PLANETS or RED PLANET.”, the map and the asteroid, shoulda been a dash dash, chat gpt, New England, brimming with mysteries, doing the thing, a fun adventure story, my name is Jim Hawkins, shaking my head, I discovered the map, monsoon season, portable analyzer, multitool, the way they do Doctor Who, hand drawn star chart, prominent red x, historical technology, an array of holodisplays and quantum analyzers, an authentic artifact, stick the father back in the story, where’s the stranger with the saber cut, Billy Bones, why chat gpt will never write a functional story that’s any good, doesn’t even enter the tavern, immediately dies, not even a sip of rum, enemy pirates, off on the adventure, pretty good at some things, a paragraph from WWI, in the style of Doctor Who, translating text, Hemingway, Dr Seuss, Robert E. Howard, short little pieces, grok stories as a whole, it can’t, weird fragments, hallucinating them, dream fragments, artificial intelligence is already here and some of us have it, stories written by children, the story ends because, set 100 years before his own timeframe, echoing back to an earlier age, layers of nostalgia, the Gutenberg, for the hardcover, an opening sonnet to the hesitating purchaser:
“To the Hesitating Purchaser:
“If sailor tales to sailor tunes,
Storm and adventure, heat and cold,
If schooners, islands, and maroons
And Buccaneers and buried Gold
And all the old romance, retold,
Exactly in the ancient way,
Can please, as me they pleased of old,
The wiser youngsters of to-day:-So be it, and fall on! If not,
If studious youth no longer crave,
His ancient appetites forgot,
Kingston, or Ballantyne the brave,
Or Cooper of the wood and wave:
So be it, also! And may I
And all my pirates share the grave,
Where these and their creations lie!
― Robert Louis Stevenson”
here’s my book, if you like all this stuff, you should like this stuff, a nostalgic piece, the thing that inspired him, the buried pirate treasure, the book wouldn’t exist without it, mystery of Captain Flint, the list, maroons, Bugs Bunny, is that a colour?, buccaneers and pirates are related, scallywag, carpetbagger, a collaborator with that, set in the Caribbean, around the Horn, the Spanish port, almost instantly, as soon as they’re off the island they’re in port, August 1750, pirate kingdoms, Port Royal in Jamaica, Madagascar too, depends on what you mean by Golden Age, triangular trade in the way that there was, slaves and money, Spanish colonization, navies got bigger and better, hunted down, losing that much treasure, class analysis, why Bilbo Baggins has a gardener, Sam Gamgee, the old Gaffer, wealthier, got his treasure, super-rich, low end nobility, gentleman farmer, lived in the top of the hill, Bagshot Row, joke, Hobbit last names, the reason Gandalf knew he would make a good [burglar], Baggins, Took, Sackville, they’re Oxford dons, Norman nobility, who’s growin the pipeweed?, lower class, the people at the tavern who don’t know how to read, big farms outside of the town, Farmer Maggot, money flow to buy birthday presents, Bilbo has a clock, the local squire is the highest we go, a good guy and an idiot, this conspiracy they have, screwed that up, I will listen to you going forward, in a modern story, refuse to admit his mistakes, if done in 2024, 22 years ago, David Hyde Pierce, endgame of 2D animation, Snow White style rotoscoped it, surfing, a lot of CG later, Disney Tarzan, looked really fluid, cool effect, Pixar ate their lunch, full CGI effect, the last gasp of traditional animation, Pixar became Disney animation, the major problem has never been the animation, a writing problem of late, not enough kids movies, Toy Story 5, Tangled (2010) was really good, a weird throwback, Frozen was more popular and made more money, The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Anderson, what if there was a queen who could do snow stuff?, Rapunzel?, folk tales vs. fairy tales, the best fairy tales are rooted in folk tales, more recent mythology, when you ground something in that cultural depth, slowly developed over a century, the best version survive, depth, sisters, not sisters, dig into that grab bag of pieces, rooted in something, super-Christian, fall away, ebb and flow, weird Germanic paganism gets Christianized, the lessons we want our kids to have, baptizing, Christmas trees, we like trees too, a star or a hammer, that’s fine, let people tell stories, inspired by him wanting to get closer to his new step-son Llyod Osbourne, why it is so good, this American lady with a kid, hey bud, real awkward here, you like pirates right?, an island with a treasure marked on it, he is Long John Silver, makes Lloyd Osbourne into Jim Hawkins, I want to be big and muscular, Conan was written for working class men, what’s The Hobbit, just an adventure, talking about himself, Bilbo is in his 50s, he’s Tolkien, he’s retired from whatever job he ever had, birthday parties, very casual, straight inserts, read about different kinds of people, the layering becomes much greater with Lord Of The Rings, Bilbo adopts his cousin, changes his name to Baggins, just so happen to have the exact same birthday, replacement for the next adventure, ultimately Frodo is 50 by the time the advenuture happens, 20 years paass, numerology thing, eleventy-third, fun number, adds up to a gross, meta-stuff, the creation of the world in the background, east of the Barrow Downs, the three trolls from the Hobbit, the legacy of the land, we don’t have Bree in the first book, Mirkwood, built up this whole world, the Silmarillion, like reading the Bible of Middle Earth, no one else has ever written anything quite like it, romance about the Golden Age of Piracy and England in this post-arrow, Admiral Benbow Inn, The Green Dragon Inn, a public house, the mail drops Billy Bones at the nicer inn down the way, near the sea, the people who are after me, the double backstory, an officer, an heir to Flint’s treasure and map, mysterious oilskin, drinking himself to death, Billy Bones and his fears, the fears that Frodo is given by Gandalf, the ring is that thing that everybody’s after, some wiser heads on this, when Gandalf doesn’t come back, Tolkien is amazing, the ends are less good than the openings, the fun adventure, the Battle Of The Five Armies, conked on the head, cool stuff in there, just Tolkien, healing, happy lives back in the Shire, the Sourging Of The Shire, evil is never quite beaten, to live you life, not a children’s adventure story, they leave the silver but they get the gold, the Indiana Jones effect, couldn’t we also have the gold?, an alien, a special gate, fairly well constructed as a plot, we don’t think of sailing as tech, apprenticed to the seacook, he’s the cabin boy, learning the ropes literally, in that engagement, both cruel and betraying but also teaching you things, very Heinleinian growing up, Citizen Of The Galaxy, the main character is purchased, indoctrinated into a secret spy agency, crippled in that book, beware of the no legged man!, born without a leg!?, weird monopod, as a part of the crew, suspicious right away, the cyborg, shocked to see a one legged man as a seacook, injured people, a missing arm in Treasure Planet, owning the inn in Bristol, a negress wife, lives in luxury, Muppet Treasure Island (1996), probably going to die along in a dinghy, one bag of gold coins, the most interesting character, everybody’s a captain, even the parrot is a captain, captains were elected, Silver was the quartermaster, he knows what it was all about, quartermasters were also elected, ability to get treasure, share out the shares, trust the captain to be greedy, almost equal power, when not chasing down a ship, who’s getting what portion, insurance when your leg gets blown off, more trustworthy, recruit everybody to stay on the plan, an indoctrination for the kid, a little culty, politiciany, same words, I was his favourite boy, that’s what politicians do, we probably wrongly like them, very personable, watches him murder a man, murder us in our sleep but so likeable, imagine your mom marries somebody who’s not your dad, you’re not my real dad?, how do you defeat that, one way to wreck a family, insinuate yourself in there, good and bad, agency and teaching something, learning the ropes, I’m in charge of you shipmate, smart as paint you are, the applebarrel situation, Blind Pew, cripples, sickly his whole life, never a man’s man, black dog’s in it, Isiah Hand, creepy and scary and effective, despite being crippled, personality and brains and not just brawn, the stand-in for himself is a threat and friendly, very disarming, narrative is basically why we are humans, if you buy the story that explains your behavior, why did you do that, come up with a story, that’s a bad story and you’re a bad kid, dogs don’t take in narratives, I want to aspire to be a better dog, sometimes they respond, do they feel guilty, they don’t understand our words very well, from a baby point of view, enjoy sugar and a good burp, a narrative about your position in the family, who you are eventually, the process of maturation, I might not be you biological dad, I might not be healthy, here’s a story that you helped me create, the psychology is perfect, an archetype that didn’t exist before he put it in here, scallywag sort of guy, the trope codifier, TV Tropes is too much and too big, we know this trope, this figure, he’s not Han Solo, Han Solo is who you want to be, Luke Skywalker, who aspires to be Long John Silver, Robert Louis Stevenson, shooting [Greedo] in cold blood, never does anything bad, I’m leaving with my money, comes right back and saves the day, redemption arc, real friends, gonna get hung, try not to get hung, I’m out, similar trope, the magical blackman, The Legend Of Bagger Vance, The Green Mile, Stephen King’s The Shining, magical black man, not scoundrels, lower class because of their race, teach to the white kid, Uncle Remus’ B’rer Rabbit, black folktales, like cartoons, animals trying to eat each other, fights with tarbabies, not a turncoat, they have to be perfect, weird anti-racism, no black kid has a magical black man, somebody who helps the kid become better at golf, Will Smith and Matt Damon, we don’t need sequels, spiritual sequels, maybe there’s a whole bunch of things that precede it, Golding book: The Lord Of The Flies, The Coral Island by R.M. Ballantyne, juvenile fiction with juvenile heroes, boys marooned, Blue Lagoon without the sex, Robinson Crusoe, Robinsonades, Swiss Family Robinson, Space Family Robinson, a whackjob Christian, attacking Christianity, meanwhile he’s skinning cats and building fortresses, a recipe for capitalism, becomes a slave, in the slave business, this is more tame, long, Jack and Ralph, that’s who Golding is responding to, it would be terrible, Robert E. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft, civilization or savagery, collapse is inevitable, why everything is shit, bitter and angry and cynical about humankind, stranding a bunch of boys on an island, descriptions, pretty little boys, samaneric, a very weird book to thrust upon kids, why they do it, because it has kids in it, Nineteen Eighty Four is an interesting read, Animal Farm, this is Stalin that’s Trotsky, diatribe against the Russian revolution, why was Orwell forced upon kids in Canada and the USA, why aren’t we reading Treasure Island in school, everyone knows the story of Treasure Island, holds up so well, such a good book, gotcha hooked, nice and short, 7 hours?, 200 pages as a paperback, pre-teen boy, modern crap, start with Treasure Island, don’t skip over the good stuff because it is old, don’t repeat the books, masterfully psychologically done, in awe of what a good job he did in tricking that boy into liking him, turning a kid into a spy because the dad is weak, it is important that he’s in there and weak, notice it more, adding resentment to an absent father is never paid off, joined the Space Navy, a Heinlein sort of ending, Starman Jones, abused by his step mom, new stepdad, tricked by a hobo who steals his books, idetic memory, sneaks on to a ship, that hobo, we’re friends still, space navy, animals on the ship, a crisis happens with the upper class navigators, lost in space, only the kid can save the ship, turn him into the captain, back into the saftey of space, granted cadetship, perfect, Robert Louis Stevenson did it first and better, always good, some kind of event, odd before, after this they get weird, doing the same thing, Heinlein names his sources, this is from Kim, The Jungle Book, some poetry from Stevenson is in some Heinlein, Hispaniola, Dominican Republic and Haiti, the direction they’re going, the prefix RLS, Rocket League Ship?, Robert Louis Stevenson, rewatch the Disney version, five years, since the 80s, every pirate things comes from Treasure Island, the accent in that movie, a very specific English accent, all pirates now talk that way, reading the text, fits the character in the book, the two have become welded together, with very few exception, Captain Bonnet, gentleman pirate, Our Flag Means Death, dressed up as Mad Max, the shoulderpad and the gimp leg, they were lower class guys pressed into this job, escaped slaves or sailors, we assume, we just think he’s a sailor, he could have been on a British naval ship, no passports, no fingerprints, nobody knows how to write, the recieved accent, Roger Moore’s accent, something you learn at school, Michael Caine learns that accent, Timothy Dalton has the correct accent, Pierce Brosnan does the accent, playing a pirate, navigation and how to run ships, our hero Jim Hawkins, moderately successful, property that they own, upstairs being sick all the time, down with the black dog, the cough of death, the local squire, makes good, makes the cash, not in a way we would fine contemptible, finding pirate treasure already stolen, go get that treasure, treasure is adventure, the thing you want because it means adeventure, can’t tell him to go away, I guess I’ll keep giving you, An Unexpected Party, mostly its just him playing with the Saga of the Volsungs, utterly shameless, very clear and explicit, give Gandalf six names, one dwarf name, never just about the plot, the wikipedia summary is not going to tell you, what the premise is, there’s a treasure, there’s a spy, what could spoil this book?, nothing, not spoiled, there’s no twist in it, you wrecked the book for me, way less value as a book, it was all about hiding this one thing from you, a map to a treasure island, let’s go, the twist is not much at all, everyone knows going in, the bad guy, he isn’t, some sort of double sided guy, two-faced, really good book, great book, thank you sir, out for the next two Sundays, The Aeneid, at the beach, driving, A Witch Shall Be Born, Gods Of Mars, Edgar Rice Burroughs sequel, the end of The Aeneid, books five through eight, more shudder pulps, weird menace stories, an issue of Adam (a men’s magazine), The Cold Female by Dale Harlow, the car smoothly ate up the road, doctor’s orders, a clear cool lake in the Canadian Rockies, flopped into bed, mysterious floating women, breezy and fast, the bright slashing sun, austere mountains, a huge silent lake a sense of foreboding, is there a cabin on the lake for rent, I want to relax and fish, he’s from Maine now, any firearms?, blanket, wood, and oil for the lamps, when everything was stowed in the car, eye-filling splendor, the volcanic lake, just what I need, peace and solitude, a short walk, the moon glowed sharp and bright, rushing around Seattle, another world, the birds too, an eerie glow, good fresh air, he didn’t see another human being, sharp lightning thrusts, thunder rumbled heavier, the light steady drumbeat, sweet odor of pine, he thought suddenly he hear a knock on the door, soaked to the skin, blue with cold, opening two pages, it’s a premise, that’s all I need, naked ladies, January 1958, pair one of these up with Mistress Of Dark Something, Mike Vendetti, Spawn Of Inferno by Hugh B. Cave, Unholy Night, The Valley Of The Worm, John Ames York, cavemen find a weird valley, a Jim Thompson story, Spicy Adventure, Mistress Of Satan’s Hounds, from Terror Tales, a lady in stocks, a guy with a brand in the shape of an eye, wearing a mask, was the monstrous little body which Jeff and Laura found, the half-world brood, sired by the hounds of hell, don’t read this eerie novelette, Mistress Of Dark Pool by Russel Gray, a cliff, Test-Tube Frankenstein, chops up earthworms, doing neoteric style science, Microcosmic God by Theodore Sturgeon, about a scientist like Edison, he’s so good at science, I’m going to make a tiny slave race, steal those technologies from them, put things in hydraulic presses, make a new technology that’s stronger and lighter, makes the world start to destroy, patents that technology, force fields, the same thing with a blender and earthworms, a technology such that this earthworm material can mimic other people, basically The Thing, replaces the scientist, its awesome, I wanted to destroy he protoplasmic horror, 12 minutes ago, look at the art for this, stupendous, I could not help but laugh when that ancient hag told me, the love of a wrinkled leathery crone, naked lady, kissing a skull with a great body, fantastic, I’m in.
Posted by Jesse Willis
Reading, Short And Deep #473
Eric S. Rabkin and Jesse Willis discuss Jungle People by Philip K. Dick
Here’s a link to the story |PDF|.
Jungle People was first published in The Berkeley Daily Gazette, February 17, 1942.
Posted by Scott D. Danielson Become a Patron!
The SFFaudio Podcast #827 – The Green Queen by Margaret St. Clair, read by Mike Vendetti. This is a complete and unabridged audiobook (4 hours 3 minutes), followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Will Emmons, and Jonathan Weichsel
Talked about on today’s show:
into mask art, other, cage guy, Ace Book D176, a shorter version in 1955, Mistress Of Viridis, the opening of the novel, The Scarlet Letter, a crown or something, very good and very bad, interesting ideas, a little too pulpy, structural problems, she churned this one out, she’s brilliant, we listen to a lot of science fiction on this podcast, The Journey Of Joenes, another masterpiece, The Last Spaceship, pretty pulpy, the ideas in it, the bugs, psychology trumps material reality, relationship stuff, good with the ideas, all the telling, central to the plot, an illusion?, the political stuff, uppers and lowers, the uppers live underground beneath the lowers?, a veil over the book, Ulysses by James Joyce, dating a woman, some sort of revolution going on too, a really good goodreads, concrete assertions, listened, spellings, Shalom, too much going on in this book, the plot is told backwards, explanation, the beginning at the end, Jerry on Goodreads
Despite not taking place on Earth or anywhere near Earth, this 1955 story (the serialized version was in Universe Science Fiction, March, 1955, as “Mistress of Viridis”) is clearly tied to Earth. The computers that people use on planet Viridis are “ibims”.
The computers don’t appear to have advanced much as mankind spread to the stars.
Except for the soft whirr and click of the ibim as it sorted the dossier cards, there was no noise.
The ibim, though not a new model, was fast. It had been sorting for some twenty minutes, and it had got through nearly half of the 400,500 cards that represented the feminine population of Viridis. But the basket marked “Hold” was still quite empty.
They end up having to relax their requirements in order to find possible candidates. What they’re looking for is a goddess—or, specifically, someone who can fake being a goddess. They get tripped up by residency requirements, of all things.
One of the interesting things about this world is how much it relies on what it calls “masks”. There are two kinds of masks: Verbal Masks and Veridical Masks. These masks are created by the ruling class to control the Lowers and keep them from rebelling… too much.
Masks appear to be what we would call memes. Verbal Masks are memes that are injected into the population, short stories that take hold of the population’s imagination. Veridical Masks are masks that use more than one sense; while the main character does make an off-hand reference to odors at least once, within this book they’re always or almost always sound and sight.
That is, this world’s population is controlled by a primitive form of Twitter and an advanced form of YouTube.
The main character recently introduced a Verbal Mask about a Green Queen, an embodiment of Nature, who will come to save the Lowers and dispel the radiation that makes Viridis so dangerous. The ruling class is shielded from this radiation; they live above some sort of shield; Lowers live below that shield.
The Green Queen myth turned out to be even more powerful than they’d expected. So they’re attempting to both use it and defuse it, and that means finding someone to take on the role.
The theme running through the story is that the myth appears at some points to be real, something transcending the constructed myth; and at others to be purely a construction of the various factions on Viridis, including one that is completely unexpected. Even at the very end of the story, just after we’ve been reasonably convinced that there was no truth to the myth as presented by the Verbal Mask, it appears to be coming true in a way that could not have been predicted by the real truth we’ve just been presented with.
Hollerith machines, all the Jews who have the tattoos on their arms, looking for the new green queen, salam, Chinese, very good insightful review, peripheral stuff, distracting and interesting, modeled on a whole bunch of things, twitter and youtube, like the way twitter works, we can’t have conversations with some people because they took in the mask, Rittenhouse, stories were told about, the trial, some people were disabused, other people didn’t get those memes or truths injected into them, hashtags are that, what’s the truth about Kyle Rittenhouse, he shot people, other people who were trying to take his gun away, the official line was before facts came out, video, testimony, obsessed with these things, verbal and veridical masks, riot/uprising, what are you getting at, Jesse, racist, illegal things, black people, it was okay that he shot white people then?, clearly white, black lives matter, petty proprietor, helping petty proprietor, better or worse, judgement, the media was portraying, a supercut after the podcast, cui bono?, who’s the upper?, petty vs. petite, baggage, we know that Will is a communist, not a secret, a pejorative, an example, bro, shitlibs, what makes a shitlib vs. a normal lib, doesn’t care and only wants, almost like an NPC, Jesse language, roof Koreans, the Rodney King riots, white people and black people, Korean American convenience store owner, standing in the rooves, defending from burning and looting, every word that we use, Cirsova uses it, the people who used his volunteer services, friends and family come help, small property owners, they’re not Blackrock, they don’t own 2/3rds of Ukraine, every piece of language we use is full, Bonnor, our main character, alcoholic, book length, her short stories are much tighter, her first novel, novels are difficult, your first longer book, a short story plot stretched out into a novel, this should have been 2 hours at most, really good ideas in it, early Philip K. Dick novels, terrible novelist, women’s sexuality, men looking at woman, a male gaze book, the termite queen, you’ve never had a baby come out of your body, the pinnacle of womanhood, fill me up, robot shower, we don’t get enough world building, too much worldbuilding, maybe Bonnar shouldn’t be the main character, he doesn’t really have a lot of agency, a mask maker fooled by his own mask, Madison Ave. executive, you have a job, body servants are servants who have jobs, the lowers have no jobs, Leaf Amadeus, on the nose, underdeveloped, Caroline Uglinger, a seamstress who embroidered her own shroud, Horvindial, Mirakis, eons after her death, Kandia, grey suit, blue hat, the guys who operate the ibims, if Philip K. Dick had handled this, The Man Who Japed, a great book, dealing with some really interesting things, veridical vs. verbal masks, Viridis is the planet, she doesn’t make it clear enough early enough, playing with names all day, latin for green, renewal, springtime, verify, Truth, what’s the secret of the planet, all the radiation isn’t there, “Russian interference” “hacked our election”, “crossed state lines”, bringing firearms across state lines, talking points, when J.D. Vance was chosen as the VP, “weird”, some of them work great, when she’s writing about this stuff in the 50s, “remember the Maine”, rhymey or memey, that whole war was ginned up largely by Hurst, invade Spain, so many things going on in this 4 hour book, radiation is an invisible killer, calibrate it, wartime propaganda, Plato in The Republic, the story about the Golden Age, technology enhances, Make America Great Again is a verbal mask, slogans, rallying cries, language unites people, left out, Hispanic community, Korean community, left out, less extreme example of that, he’s one of me, part of my crew, Trump forehead tattoo, Taco Bell, am I supposed to look at the tattoos or not, African or Maori?, tattoos are hard to understand, had sex with a couch, yolo, go out into the ether, her world vs our world, not top down, official control over social media, demonetized, booted off the platform, suppress or boost, BLM, became top down, special dance with kente cloth, “land back”, specifically made it so it is not racist, the babies, Chinese, looking at people’s bodies, your race doesn’t make you an upper, a class or caste system, the lowers are totally parasites, little glimpses, an upper class woman walking beside a lower class man wearing a kilt/miniskirt, bony knees, his spine, resentful, trying not to take in the bad food, Hinduism, Judaism, Kosher food, radioactive, by eating too much of this radioactive food you’re shortening your life, religious philosophies, Christian Scientists, diet books, preferred diet, is she wrong, Mark Twain hated her, #TeamTwain, food that falls outside of the diet is bad, deeply flawed, pinning down the flaw, first novel problems is our theory?, Jonathan’s first novels are unpublished, John Updike’s first novel is a werewolf story, never publish this book, a university lockbox, so embarrassed, we will eventually get a hold of it, unless the university burns down, there’s value in here, almost a pulp novel, mass market paperback to read on the train, disposable literature, plotting or structuring, achievements in writing novels, filling in details is not the way it should be happening, hit a certain wordcount is the kiss of death unless you’re a magician, a parody of science fiction, long speeches, if you put them in Captain Kirk’s mouth, a little A.E. van Vogty, Black Destroyer, The Voyage Of The Space Beagle, Destination Universe, characters are inhuman, he brings ideas to things, the Weapons Shops stories, future village, snake cult temple, Conan the Barbarian movie, a weapons shop opens up in your town, it reads like the Russians have gone through a loophole and anyone can by an AK, they screen people, superinteresting, not public domain, not well written, disturbance of an idea, every story has ideas in it, cute, bizarre, the spirit of a star, Green Queen meme comes alive, a very Philip K. Dick move, not being able to know what’s reality and what’s not, we can’t sympathize with him, too alien, the cult of the apple pickers, almost Roman, one of the influences, the city of Rome, Christianity, cults around professions, guilds?, trade guilds, longer and fixed, or shorter, if you found this novel in a drawer, you could take the ideas that are in here and make a good novel out of the ideas that are in here, what went wrong, time to money ratio, originally published for a magazine, the original art, a rocketship, the green queen and a guy outside a rocket, she’s zapping him, the art for the original magazine publication, a woman covered in a green starfish, thematic, a woman above a man, out of a spacesuit, the radiation, is it saying that veridical masks masks us to truths about concrete reality around us?, the barrier between castes, what a huge topic to tackle, a character who randomly became psychic all of a sudden, I just sense things, throws everything off, can’t be tricked by the masks, undercut at the end, the history of the planet, she was just a bug!, you’re sitting in the chair and getting Trump tattooed on your forehead, in group, I hate you mom/dad, bought into the ideological belief, seven months ago, back in January, when Trump gets assassinated how weird it will be, going to be very meta, the first week after the assassination attempt, a little bit apologetic, he has to be stopped, he’s Hitler, completely memory wiped, that never happened, endless upper investigation, the bodycam footage, Jesse is just crazy, local news, moments right before and after, I told the Secret Service to guard this building, this is shit!, we’ve got to get the shooter guy, a good video, when Jonathan recounts it, silos of responsibility and dialogue, organizational silos, massive incompetence being promoted to the top everywhere, completely demented, never does her homework, the significance of the passage of time, people who don’t do their homework, failing up, not as senile as you keep on saying, the speech where everybody though he was senile, he’s “older”, legitimately the president, a bizarre theory, having Jonathan on this podcast, Jesse doesn’t see his own veridical masks, not a big mask guy, a constructed reality online, voting patterns, quell dissatisfaction, to make people more accepting of their fate, the uppers resent the lowers, there would be riots and uprisings, pity the lowers, eat polluted food all the time, how Americans view the poors, welfare queens, baskets of deplorable, food deserts, two teams vs. one team, takes on it are slightly different, in what sense are they different, it’d be better if they were both gone, one secret party running the country, institutionally, vote against genocide, which team should I vote for, Jill Stein, foreign policy, domestic policy, infrastructure, bringing jobs back, the thing that they want to do is impossible, can’t stop corporations, capital flight tax, they can’t do that because they are funded, put up tariffs, the most popular electric car in Europe is Chinese, Tesla, more popular than the Chevy Volt, even on Vancouver Island, 3-4 white Teslas, 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicles, a subsidy, BC subsidized US electric and Japanese electric cars, Walmart’s the only business in town, Chinese are bad and Russians are bad, Nabisco moved to Mexico, food you shouldn’t eat, really mad, how can the politicians stop them, tax on the cookies, a free trade agreement, lower the minimum wage, or import people, foreign workers, that wouldn’t solve the problem of the disappearing jobs, you’re dictator, dictator of New Jersey, the national guard would be unable to defeat the United States, eliding the question, dictator of North America, shut down Nabisco, you don’t like Oreos, cookies should be made by a grandma, maximize profits and minimize costs, Richard D. Wolff, Mondragon cooperatives, start with a bank, if you become unemployed, a lump sum to start your own cooperative, on the dole for 3 years anyway, solve all sorts of problems, the GI bill, infrastructure and jobs, all the veterans, Evan’s solution: universal army, the silly way to do it, grandma doesn’t need to go to drill practice, universal conscription, makes sense for the United States, Kamala’s VP is not a communist, it’s nuts, that’s not reality, driving a MAGA car, looking for a fight, ginned into thinking this is a real thing, the spin for Kamala, so good, least popular VP, memory holed, all these memes, all these ads, white women for Kamala, white dudes for Kamala, The Big Lebowski (1998), Jeff Bridges, beat that fascist, he’s a fascist again, it is hard to know this is a good book, Chip Delaney [Samuel R. Delany], a Farmer guy, advanced readers, coming into literature, throw them off misimpression, same logic as ban this book, anything past 10 years ago you don’t need to read, I know better than you, break into the literature, their mentor, fell off of a coconut tree, fell out of a time machine, not the best introduction to science fiction, in that explicit situation, a great book, hard to know, Jesse does his homework, some books are better introductions to science fiction, Jonathan might be right about this, simple advice, just do what I say, just vote this way, just do that thing, a reality that effects me, the starving children in Gaza, verbal masky, she gives big speeches about it, the Ukraine war, six facts, a smaller country invaded by a larger country, let’s here him out, in the context of an essay, Jeannette Ng, Campbell is a fascist, more money in that, the whole Cat Rambo situation, unforced errors, she stumbled over her own non-dick, Dick or non-dick, as a female book, Ursula K. Le Guin would have some person from Earth come to this planet, can’t be too smart, has to be a good actress, she’s credulous, credulous too great a readiness to believe things, outside the bagel shop, everybody’s credulous because advertising works, hard to have conversations about a popular veridical mask, credulousness, the ibims that they’re using, a D&D character with high charisma and low intelligence, she doesn’t even know she’s not the green queen, a lady talking about ladies being dumb, in Ringworld, he picks this chick, [Teela Brown], a 7th son of a 7th son sort of thing, earth has the technology to physically control people’s thoughts, psychology and advertising, ads, hidden from the masses, put on the population to control the reality that they see, a big problem wit the book, we’re following the badguys, foment a revolution, a more interesting story if St. Clair had decided to follow the revolutionaries, a tiktoker, fucking Eddie Liger?, ACP, be better at tiktok, Scott Miller took a course on how to be a good youtuber, professional youtubers, you can see these patterns, interaction reminders, smartTubeBeta, big long things you can skip, the removal of the dislike [count], removal of the ability to view likes, see what somebody I hate is liking, they’re just hiding it from us, so they can control us better, a way to manipulate people, a personality test, psychology, Timothy Leary, mind mirror, giant personality test, change your personality, scenarios, a tortise overturned, what do you do?, someone gives you a cat skin wallet, graphs your responses, pick a fictional character, Spider-Man, Julius Caesar, most famous dictator ever, the goal is to change the way that you’re thinking, shots of heroin, what the likes are all about, heart, angry, care, pushing the button, creating a map of your psychology, Mark Zuckerberg gets to get it, very credulous, believe the things that they’re hearing, did you quit twitter, keep my friends on twitter, start a guerrilla war against twitter, brink back the dislikes, one of the reasons we care about dislike, good content or not, a really bad ratio, I don’t need to click on that, de-rank it, how to fix your lawnmower, stripped down and simple, Reddit came a little late, gamed and wrecked, after blogs, BBSs, web 2.0 stuff, blogs were destroyed, Scott was abandoning it, a commonplace notepad, IMDB, writing review, bought by Amazon, Goodreads, you have to own your own content, an older movie on IMDB, old reviews, long and in depth, why is this guy writing all these movie reviews, bloggers without a blog, we’re lowers, what Jonathan does for a living, underemployed by technical definitions, jobs at poor pay, play computer games, most people are lowers, most uppers are lowers too, from the Hamptons, lush upscale life, suicide, borrowing money to pay for it, smaller scale, covered in pustules, a fungus, psychosomatic dying, Return From The Stars, Treasure Island is next, by making it Double Star, a space voyage across the ocean, Muppet Treasure Island, everybody is a captain, pirates, smart guy, fun guy, where the YA novels came from, really bad novel, William Golding’s Lord Of The Flies, I hate this book, a really popular 19th century novel, the wikipedia entry, his cave man novel, the neanderthals are kind gentle people, similar themes, The Coral Island, 1857, R.M. Ballantyne, Robinsande, never out of print, civilizing effect of Christianity, named the same, forced to read, its evil propaganda, predict a lot of what happened out of the last decade on twitter, a bad joke, pile on that person, destroy their lives, he’s missing something, he’s got one note, an art novel, pretty description of things, more like The Blue Lagoon by Henry De Vere Stacpoole, despite, Thackery, a LibriVox version, influential, euro popular, 11 hours, a traveler at heart, shipping out to the South Seas, shipwrecked, wonders of the sea, an unexpected source (Jesus?), kinda being jokey, so full of Robinson Crusoe, the thesis he’s making, loves his strawmen, stacked deck, find deep meaning in this very small meaning book, I’d like to do more science fiction too, start a new podcast, books and art that makes people angry, good or evil, challenges you, what good literature does, what book makes you angry?, when Jonathan started doing this podcast, greater speeds, a good speed, getting bored, put the speed up higher, full of good ideas, not well structured or well developed so we can, The Last Spaceship. The Phoenix On The Sword, Will’s review, substantial enough, A Witch Shall Be Born, the cartoon of Conan The Adventure, a phoenix on his shield, the first one in Weird Tales, everything jumps out fully formed, here’s this whole world, king of Aquilonia, been all Stygian, he’s about being a man, man, a story on the podcast, new to Howard, a Solomon Kane story, two big anthologies, a complete narrative, ending as an old guy, read by Phil Chenevert, love you Phil Chenevert, nailed/crucified, novel length, The Hour Of The Dragon, he wanted to make more money, write a novel, after he killed himself, living on money that he didn’t have, a total neophyte, the comic book version, Roy Thomas, stripping out some of the text, John Buscema, Savage Sword Of Conan, astoundingly good, Vale Of Lost Women, not a popular story, because racist, he fights a god and doesn’t lose, a valley full of women that are flowers, fights a god from space, very raw, Jack Williamson, if public domain, the clearance, on audible, The Humanoids and With Folded Hands, Stefan Rudnicki, a good science fiction novel, Joe Biden is president of the world, but not really in charge, dottering old man who suddenly grows six inches, taking care of humans and keeping them safe, the robots come, hurray hurray, I want a cigarette, I must lobotomize you now, how am I going to defeat the robots, The Green Girl, stories about green women, Ray Cummings, collaborative work, The Masked World, Will’s blog thing, anything he really needs to tell, Legion Of Space, Legion Of Time, space opera-y, time opera, Blackstone Audio, before podcasts were invented, tonight’s episode 799, 9 years, run outta numbers but not books, science fiction stories, Algis Budrys, WHO? was enough, more Silverberg, any Heinlein, the one with twins, Podkayne Of Mars, Time For The Stars, set on Mars, really good, this actor, you gotta play the president, Alan Dean Foster, the Alien novelization, drug themes in science fiction, two shorts, a Silverberg and something else, The Happy Unfortunate and The Hunted Heroes, Larry Niven didn’t start until 1966, The Integral Trees, Sirius by Olaf Stapledon, one more, Odd John, Omega: The Last Days of the World by Camille Flammarion, all collaborative, Niven is never going to be public domain, so much Silverberg, and interview with him in the new Galaxy, skinsuit, what happened, die a natural death, walk him around the compound, Biden grew six inches, too many Jose Farmers, Damon Runyon, Mark Twain, Star Man’s Quest, The Mysterious Stranger, Samuel Delany, his criticism, everybody’s mad at, Joanna Russ, The Barbarian, her taking on Conan, I think I would hate this, The Female Man, only one book, How To Suppress Women’s Writing, you’re right I’m shit, Harlan Ellison, a juvenile delinquent in space, angry characters, his criticism, more Stanisław Lem, wait six months, Solaris, Memoirs Found In A Bathtub, Star Diaries, Further Reminiscences, The Futurological Congress, a few in this series, German TV series, the famous one, if standalone, a 1971 black humour science fiction novel, Ijon Tichy, the narrator, comedic stories, send this stuff to Will, shownotes, look at the schedule at the bottom, from six months ago, Woody Guthrie, It Takes Two To Conga, Memoirs Found In A Bathtub, a hermetically sealed underground community, it can’t be deleted now, show up for it, twin gifts, hapless planet Earth, caught up in a local revolution, flash frozen, a funny piece, thinkpiece, comedy, satire, Solaris isn’t a comedy, a straight up ponderous piece, a good memory for books, Arkady Strugatsky, Stalker (1979) is punishing to watch, similar to Harry Potter, recruited for this job, weird group of people, Philip K. Dick, he’s a good guy, sickmyduck.narod.ru, good fun, Monday Begins On A Saturday, an interesting story, two hitchhikers, Karelia, research into magic, Nathaniel Priestly, Adam Roberts, he’s fine, the complete Philip K. Dick, Martian Time-Slip, A Maze Of Death, Now Wait For Last Year, space Mussolini, what haven’t you done, Transmigration Of Timothy Archer, non-sf ones, 150 stories, long or short, contrast, medium length, Waterspider, carefully shaved his head, each man only one inch high, the worst part of the vision, in all probability it was true, Minority Report, very modern, with all the UK stuff, arresting you for what you said on Facebook, different, prevent people from doing crimes tomorrow, its status, it is available, not a great great story, a good think piece, Tom Cruise is running around the city, I didn’t do the crime, 3 autistic people in a bathtub, why they picked that one, unadaptable, an abortion truck, A Maze Of Death, he doesn’t plot novels, a little shack, just speed, psychosis from speed, full of drug ideas without drugs, marrying five women, as a person, ahead of his time, normal guy working a job in the 1980s, anything from the 60s, Retreat Syndrome, Return March, The King Of The Elves, goes psychotic, The Mold Of Yancy, The Trouble With Bubbles, The War With The Fnools, when the magazines die, What Will We Do With Ragland Park, Top Standby Job, Little Black Box, The Infinite, The Eye Of The Sybil, a black man who lives in our reality, it’s raining, on the edge of his business collapsing, convenience store gas station, our king is dying, the king dies, Philip K. Dick is amazing,
IT WAS RAINING and getting dark. Sheets of water blew along the row of pumps at the edge of the filling station; the tree across the highway bent against the wind.
Shadrach Jones stood just inside the doorway of the little building, leaning against an oil drum. The door was open and gusts of rain blew in onto the wood floor. It was late; the sun had set, and the air was turning cold. Shadrach reached into his coat and brought out a cigar. He bit the end off it and lit it carefully, turning away from the door. In the gloom, the cigar burst into life, warm and glowing. Shadrach took a deep draw. He buttoned his coat around him and stepped out onto the pavement.
“Darn,” he said. “What a night!” Rain buffeted him, wind blew at him. He looked up and down the highway, squinting. There were no cars in sight. He shook his head, locked up the gasoline pumps.
He went back into the building and pulled the door shut behind him. He opened the cash register and counted the money he’d taken in during the day. It was not much.
Not much, but enough for one old man. Enough to buy him tobacco and firewood and magazines, so that he could be comfortable as he waited for the occasional cars to come by. Not very many cars came along the highway any more. The highway had begun to fall into disrepair…
skip down, limp and sodden, “I’m the king of the elves, and I’m wet.”, forlornly, silently, gets really dark, a psychotic delusion, Beyond Fantasy, a literal story, Edgar Rice Burroughs books, The Gods Of Mars, the second one, The Eternal Savage, Twilight Zoneish, in caveman times, Beyond Thirty, cross to Europe, hands down, re-read A Princess Of Mars, changes the tone, very atheist, a certain Christian audience, dies in a cave, The God Of Tarzan, people putting on a show, sounds a lot like the book we just did, humorous, John Carter, JC, like/hate, when COVID was just starting, Foster, You’re Dead, his parents cant afford the latest bomb shelter, guess you’re going to die then, John Hopkins (University), account deleted many times, a shit poaster, Mimetic Value, time isn’t linear for God, Jesus suffers a bit more, to incarcerate, Terminator and Interstellar, everything science fiction is Christian, paleo jesus arrives from the future, The Lovers by Philip Jose Farmer, John Connor, in the second Terminator movie, come with me if you want to live [forever in heaven], a lot on Audible.com, your hero and mine, Mark Twain, To Your Scattered Bodies Go, Farmer wrestling, Sir Richard Francis Burton, read his short stories, truly public domain, time travel Jesus thing going on it, The Skull, Paul wasn’t having any of it, guy in the future is a criminal arrested by the cops, go back in time and kill this man, this church that’s been subverting the government, goes back in time, two weeks off, zap everybody, interferes with a teenage couple’s relationship, just like Behold The Man, Conger is a JC as well, stoning him, he’s Jesus, a combination of Terminator and Behold The Man, Joe Haldeman, done The Forever War, more Bester, haven’t done all the Simak, Mindbridge, superhorny, mud turned into the perfect woman, Forever Free, Forever Peace, Camouflage, a collection, a fixup, parts of it are public domain, you shouldn’t do a show on a fixup or collections, understanding none of them, Special Deliverance is very silly, 1982, allegory, ridiculous, selling Will, Project Pope, Simak is worth doing, Heritage Of Stars, All Flesh Is Grass, Time Is The Simplest Thing, A Choice Of Gods, it’s your call, bud, a Simak train, in the suburbs, post-apocalyptic, indians robots, alternate reality, poetry planet?, see what he’s looking at, Jesse’s secrets.
Posted by Jesse Willis
Reading, Short And Deep #472
Eric S. Rabkin and Jesse Willis discuss The Tell-Tale Heart by Edgar Allan Poe
Here’s a link to the story |PDF|.
The Tell-Tale Heart was first published in The Pioneer, January 1843.
Posted by Scott D. Danielson Become a Patron!
The SFFaudio Podcast #826 – The Aeneid by Virgil [Books I – IV] read by George Allen (for LibriVox) and translated by John Dryden. This is the first third of the epic poem, books I to IV (comprised of XII Books) running 3 hours 52 minutes, followed by a discussion of them. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Scott Danielson and Alex (Pulpcovers)
Talked about on today’s show:
books 1 to 4, a humanities course, misspoke, The Iliad, a hard downshift to reading the Aeneid vs. living on twitter, opposite end of the spectrum, young people don’t watch a lot of movies anymore, even TV shows are generally for old people, The Only Murders In The Building, boomers or slightly younger, bet money, this didn’t actually happen, invited Virgil over for dinner, it’s 9 hours, bro, people would and could do it, you’re in a different headspace, a different mode, the material is familiar, reading this on paper, easy reading on paper, following along in print, Robert Fagels, John Dryden, the footnotes, sometimes the footnotes contradict Jesse, who is Aeneas’ mom, the goddess Venus, she’s a huntress, dressing up like Diana, sometimes they’re not behaving in the way that is most stereotypical, reflecting, the opening, the retelling, mapping The Odyssey, book 3 especially, one to oney, Homer, Virgil was a real dude, 100% known, a merging of some things, existing myths about Aeneas, crafted an overarching story, popular myths, strikingly different, a work of art by a particular individual, all about prophecy, just Roman history, subsumed by the Roman Empire, a national epic done folk hero style, Robin Hood, national epic propaganda style, saying Shakespeare wrote to get approval of the queen, this doesn’t feel as mythological, reliance on gods for everyday events, Augustus, from town to town, died before he finished it, not in 20 years, a really cool noir ending, its finished, wanted to have it burned, not good enough, his heirs, his literary estate, copyright didn’t exist back then, George R.R. Martin, more drafts, how you write an epic poem, the pentameter wasn’t quite right, a meter problem, forced rhymes, pretending you can rhyme things, funnier, poems should be hilarious, helps tell the story, Beowulf, the translation, failed Latin, Latin 101, greater shames in life, written in Greek or Latin, this translation tries to feel epic poetry, modern post-critical translation, words that will shock you, twist the meaning, the feel, someone just telling a story, structured that way on the page, accept it without a rhyme, prose translation, a phone call, edited an annotated and compiled, Arms and the man I sing, haughty Juno, long labours both by sea and land he bore, Latian realm, built his destined town, long glories of majestic Rome, so brave, so just a man, first part of book 1, very different, an exile driven on by fate, destined to reach Lavinia soil, cruel Juno’s relentless rage, before he could found a city, the same idea, same material, not as pretty, not as poetic, easier to understand, sounds better when you read it, a very busy week, hard to pick up what’s happening, sometimes the backwards is grammar, to make it it, Maissa was going to be here, compared to The Odyssey, a very boy book, not a girl book, marriage, Juno being mad, childbirth and marriage, picks up his father, takes his son by his hand, leaves his wife behind, new wives, a nice lady there, wants to have him in bed, a serious succession of goddesses, widow, ok, destiny, I am very Roman virtue, honoring thy father, Imma kill myself, I curse you, the feel, we notice and know, comes back all by himself, loses some ships, war with the Latins, he’s still got his people, not an individual’s return home, Philip K. Dick, a man experiencing the world, Beyond Lies The Wub, a similarity but a difference, he’s trying to go home, home has been destroyed, found a new place, you need more than one guy, the Greeks are not an empire, a league, teams, allies, games together, each guy is his own king, no matter what town, Ajax the lesser, Ajax the greater, propagandistic, a national epic for an empire, a leader of men who doesn’t kill his men, sex quest across the Mediterranean, supernatural stuff, monster or goddess, variation on the magic, guest host relationship, you invited me into your home, you came into my home without knocking, each island is about the guest host relationship, a bible for how to deal with no empire, they invite you in and turn you into a pig, Dido’s peninsula, Libya, respect and food to the other lost ships, I’ll sleep with you, that’s cool, called by fate, reminded by the gods, we disagree, Juno’s the one manipulating things, do we call that fate if a god is doing it, when Zeus or Jupiter says something’s happening, that’s fate, classical pantheons, the king of the gods has real authority, a lot of talk about how the greeks are very masculinity, same thing is true of the Romans, more obviously intensive, the rape of the Sabines, whole buncha women, a sacking, taken the remnants of an army, one guy eventually showing up on his own island, teams up with his son and kills em, righteous executes justice, boy what a troubled sailor, Aeneas is not fun, moved by the fate, a mirror to Augustus, blows some waves, Poseidon is happy with Aeneas, everything is reversed, all subsumed to the outcome, written backwards, a deliberate myth about his own people, an inversion, every part of it is backwards, an inevitable monopoly piece, watching a chess game from the 1960s, no concept of spoiling things, you know where it is going on purpose, the whole fun of it, almost too perfect, Dido is not a goddess, nymphs, more deliberate, more false, she’s also the queen of Carthage, beaten in recent history, she’s on her pyre, now we’re going to forever be at war for what you did to me, why didn’t he just stat with her, almost like a prequel, to get to Episode 4, doesn’t feel as awesomely spontaneous, not internal, everything he ran into, a goal he was going for, he’s dutiful, less of a character, found the new city and get better lives, you’re all going to live and conquer Italy, not acting like a king, a piece on a chessboard being moved around, his destiny was to found Rome, that is what a king is supposed to act like according to this piece of propaganda, those guys are lost at sea, that guy got eaten by a cyclops, that’s not the job of a kind, that is why we have an empire, good at art and tutoring but they don’t have the discipline that a king is supposed to have, that culminating scene at the end, he’s basically won the war, he’s essentially founded Rome, he could end this and make friends and have it be over, brothers in this new land, my friend, echoes back to the Iliad, of course we have to genocide you, extremely new to having a king again, imperator, supreme executive authority, an agent of the senate, working for the senate, that lie went away over the centuries, this is an emergency, for the rest of his life, is Augustus the first time an emperor comes into existence?, the same trick Napoleon uses, does that trick work again?, the British are very willing to marry into the Bonaparte royal line, the emperor of japan still exists, but the empire is just Japan and Okinawa, before the Shogun, prime minister, but the king has no power, I’m the emperor’s chief warlord, nobody tries to mess with the throne, a separate kind of thing, the managers of empire, they have staff, the buck stops with them, pontifex maximus, the highest religious figure, sometimes you become a literal god as well, the head of the army, extreme power, this book feels different in part because its an inversion, it is not about art and a man wandering the earth and figuring out how to relate to things, a man needs to be with his wife and his son, the journey of a state, curses the two culture to war, 27 BC, 2100 year old book?, they knew about all that Carthage stuff, figuring out what they’re culture is like based on this one thing, a very narrow window, the propaganda of empire, an emperor’s job, carrying the father, to lead the son, faithful to his friends, push on towards destiny, my pride is up, personal rivalry, the inevitable grind of what the plan is, trying to live your life trying to figure out what the gods want, make a sacrifice to Juno, the milk white cow, and a foal, motifs we don’t get, symbols, fire, snake, page 61, the hollow spaces lie, denoting deeth [death], the priestess enters with her hair unbound, a curse, threefold Hecate, hoary, with brazen sickles reaped a noon of night, baleful juices, robbing the mother’s love, two meanings, the mother of the foal, unable to suckle its child, she wanted to have his babies, you could get married again, this ritual is to kill her, a mother’s job is to have children and make new Roman soldiers, everything’s white, twas dead of night, gentle floods, peace with downy wings was brooding on the ground, making eggs, very skillfully done, a cow, pours red juice on its head, cow, cattle?, it exists, if I was a Roman, some of those symbols, circling back, feels like a witch, she’s a priestess, this text is the foundational text in education up into the 1900s, memorizing, those symbols, I bet a lot of it came straight outta this text, the root of a lot of the symbolism and language, this massive poem, 9000 couplets, breaking it up, so much going on, Donald Westlake book set in New York, what a cab is, how the economy works, the prices, racism, how much a sandwich costs, what the alley smelled like, how this was distributed, copied by slaves or copyists, possibly Greeks, making copies to be gifted, presents, enjoy them, everybody likes reading, the major media that’s available, they have theaters and stuff, the actors were slaves, low class, business magnate, a general, something important, who the audience for it is, they’re going to think it is cool, the amount of change you need to get in to get into it, questioning what does that mean exactly, more difficult than the odyssey, a manufactured bible, more book of Mormon, maybe they have an empire, surrounded, in Utah, there’s a Mormon in the house!, the description of the Trojan War, their minds were addled, intervention by gods that made them actually accept this thing, Virgil, why Odysseus is a hero to me is because he’s tricky, his virtue is not the virtue of being a good father or a dutiful leader, not the virtue of an emperor, pride, proud, strong, some invulnerability, sense of honor, honor comes from pride, how he can trick his way out of things, you promised to go off with a thousand ships, pretends to be insane, plowing the beach, puts [Telemachus] on the beach, Achilles, dressed him up as a handmaiden [Achilles on Skyros], thread, a rocket, a sword, these conversations, differences between men and women, the reason he is beloved of Minerva/Athena is he’s tricky, wisdom is being clever/tricky not making good decisions for your community, Aeneas is beloved by Jupiter, the fealty is to the father, a major difference, tusky boars and stags, my animal, the titles for these books, The Passion Of Dido, a biblical meaning, Safe Haven After Storm, The Final Hours Of Troy, Landfalls Ports Of Call, Arms And The Man, The Fall Of Troy, Aeneas’ Wanderings, wow, double meaning, an interesting choice, have something happen to you, Passion Of The Christ vs. a woman who is passionate, to be an actor is to act, to be a patient is to have things done to you, her sister is the human who tries to give her good advice, bad advice, murdered by his brother, his land and his wealth, his gold, the wife is collateral damage, she had promised not to remarry, in such a tough spot, she loved her dead husband, visiting his tomb, not in the know with regard to the chessboard plan, the visits to Sicily, abbreviated and less cool than anything we get in the Odyssey, just following the map, together in one book, who he was writing for, what would a stop in Sicily have meant, pooping on this book, two of the greatest things ever written, pretty good for a dude, given all the limitations, so much foreshadowing, follows the same structure and formula, you can bump into characters, a map of the journeys, time feels very compressed, founded Rome before Odysseus got home, 10 years at war, 10 years at sea, hanging out with Calypso, the storytelling, the first book of The Odyssey, sees some washer princesses, is it Menelaus, I’m not a classics scholar, I’m a pulp art fan, the man of many devices, the sacred citadel of Troy, many the woes he suffered, the return of his comrades, he desired it sore, so sad all my guys died, hey guys you all have to stuff your ears full of wax, but tie me up I gotta hear this shit, so appealing to a teenagers, fools, goddess daughter of Zeus, longing for return, yearning that he should be her husband, everybody wants to marry our boy, turn him into a tame animal, maybe an owl, whatever you are is what you’re turned into, stay in bed don’t go out, stay here, we’ll stay in, a third lady, all these sea-ladies want to keep him, return home to Ithaca, even among his own folk, save Poseidon, sundered in twain, where Hyperion sets and rises, Argives, his men screwed up, they killed the bulls of the sungod, that’s why they were all killed, Mercury shows up and says don’t go in there, take this herb with you, favoured by the gods, one way to read it, being gifted with good ideas, having an app on your phone that can tell you where to go, these Facebook gods are working against us, always meeting cross dressing gods, Mentor, more formal about it, piety was prized among the Romans, forces of nature, make this guy a king, personification of storms, keep your head down and survive, more legalistic, rational?, the city of Rome, household gods, a Roman concept, a guardian angel, you inherited them from your father, little statues of them, a different vibe, the gods have a plan and are working through it, I got reject by Paris and I’m mad about it, you killed my cows, he was brought home because they liked him for some reason, Aeneas is being dragged along his path of fate, a very pious guy, Aeneas before this was written he was a very pious guy, supremely violent, appealed to the Romans, a more Roman virtue, martial prowess, bows to the will of the gods, does what he’s supposed to, feels less mythic than Odysseus, really good, flashed, Hyrcania, Hyrkania, the horselords in Conan, Russia/Ukraine, these walls he entered, forced by my fate, from head to foot, looking at people’s bodies, no longer these outrageous threats, she dissin him, hardened entrails, rough Hyrcanian tigers, looked or lent, all symptoms of a base ungrateful mind, behold in vain, triumphant treason, faithless is earth, faceless are the skies, suicidal you might say, #betrayed, I know that place, you knew that one, a number of cities, Argos, in one of these old books, sometimes it is mapped in Robert E. Howard, The Lost Valley Of Iskander, kinda sorta, 20 cities named after Alexander, weird fantasy novel, the other Alex, weird fantasy author, [Thomas Burnett Swann’s The Weirwoods], shinto like spirits, occassional cyclops, there isn’t magic in every wave, Cloacina the goddess of the drains, the sewers in Rome, chief of the drame, The Not-World, every forest is full of spirits, nymphs, dryads, naidas, land of the lotus eaters, weird creatures, the world is unexplored, at least 500 years earlier, the Mycenaean collapse, a very post-modern, Virgil is very post-modern for a pre-modern, camera, well that just happened, make me die, really horrible, a mural of the Trojan war here, a grotto where there’s a lady who’s immortal, that’s not a thing in this book, its a human woman in a real place, that we really salted the earth for, pretty extraordinary book, the next two installments, split it into thirds, the Iliad part is the war part, more Odyssey part, the journey to the underworld, how Virgil ended up in Dante, referencing previous book, Larry Niven putting himself in hell, Inferno, the sequel, H.P. Lovecraft is always thinking my life as a Roman!, Philip K. Dick leans on the early end, a story set in ancient Greece, [The Tree by H.P. Lovecraft], I know, I know, the whole story is a kinda like Robert Graves gives us about Livia, Augustus’ wife, I, Claudius, poisoning everybody, two artists are commissioned to make a statue of a god, inspiration from nature vs. inspiration from partying in the city, such a good friend to his friend, you don’t need to build me a tomb, put an olive branch at the head of my grave, a mighty tree, collapses in a windstorm, the friend isn’t a friend he was jealous, he poisoned him, art inspired by nature, Lovecraft’s argument, making that argument here, The Odyssey is better because its inspired by some sort of natural thing vs. a propagandistic thing, three great attempts to do epic poetry, Gilgamesh is a thing, a tradition of epic poetry, Dante did it for the Italians, he put Virgil in it, not so much as a history, everyone else writing in Latin, Milton tried to do it in English, none of them, for science fiction fans, Eclogues aka The Bucolics, The Georgics, shorter poems, some sort of theories, one of them is a really interesting thing about bees, bees in here, an Italian miniseries adaptation of The Aeneid, a nest of bees, bees are a big thing in Roman culture, the Romans being bees, they have queens, they thought they had kings, the king bee, industrious, plays and drinking parties and doing philosophies, also farmers, bees produce honey, citizen farmers, we will kick your ass, a recipe for making bees, get a carcass of a bull and cover it so no air can get in, bees within it, wasps?, that doesn’t sound right, a metaphor, what that metaphor is, you can see the working hand of Virgil in the manipulation of the events, Dido and the war, so much content in the millions of similes, Dido’s sister her hair is blonde, are the Carthaginians aryans?, is that a metaphor, the marriage bed, something red poured on its head, virgins everywhere, endless virgins, something the Romans are thinking a lot about, prized virginity, Vestal virgins, what’s the word sacred mean, set aside for the gods, something unblemished, in Exodus, an unblemished lamb, what’s the best animal to sacrifice, nudity, half-cladness, bottomless, kinda fun, not a prudish book, the morality is very different, extremely different, they have the things they believe in, a lot of echoes to it, The Man Who Was Thursday, Father Brown Mysteries – The Sign Of The Broken Sword, guess who the spymaster is, higher up the chain, The Everlasting Man, the pinnacle of pagan civilization, only the Christianization of Roman, the best culture, supposed to rule the world, our empire will have no boundaries, let’s go Rome!, these guys were a little weird tho, invade and murder all these people, before tweets, it sounds like a forerunner to the Riverworld novels, John Kendrick Bangs, Bangsian Fantasy, everyone who has ever died is in Hades, a mysterious houseboat, comedic version of what happens, put Virgil in Hell, he doesn’t belong in the worse circle of hell because he’s a virtuous pagan, retrograde takes, this doesn’t seem right to me, reading Gilgamesh, that guy really loved his friend, science fiction about a future culture where their virtues are really different, prized different things, murdered that guy and raped his wife, Jack Vance, The Moon Moth, a culture where you aren’t allowed to watch people eat, so disgusting, Time Out Of Joint, you do things backwards, gonna have to go to school soon, people regurgitate food into the refrigerator, everything’s reversed, Catholic worries about birth control and abortion, insert me into some woman, attach an umbilical cord, you eat through your ass, learned a ton, meeting again on the first of September, on for The Green Queen and then Treasure Island, Hugh B. Cave, unmute your children.
Posted by Jesse Willis